Have you experienced the shift hiccup issue with your Redeye?

[Hpindy]

Do you mean hiccup or just blip into the next gear like it should?

I mean hit the rev limiter and "hiccup"


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[Phast Hemi]

OK, now who is smoking crack? The Horsepower rating and where the transmission shifts are completely not related. There is ZERO correlation. You must be so mad you can't think straight. I'm sorry.


How do you know what Dodge is doing or thinking? You work for Dodge now? Plus, as I have said, just maybe they screwed up the Calibration. Another thing you just cannot comprehend and they would never admit.

What makes you so sure that I was not aware that lowering my shift points would fix the problem? It's common knowledge that if the car is running into the Rev limiter you either raise the rev limit or lower the shift rpm. You completely make up this story to fit what you want as you go along. You have a LONG history of putting words in my mouth.

I posted what I was doing with the car and there are no secrets. I also posted why I sold the car. I also posted why I trashed that thread and that is all out there. So, what is your point? Yes you coming in there and pissing me off (offended me was the nicer way of saying this) was the TRIGGER. It was not the main reason so don’t flatter yourself. I also posted this. So, again, what is your point?

Once again, you think you are the only one that can set up a car and drive it? All these other owners are dumb?

Never said I was the only one who could solve a problem. But I did come forward and offer to do so when no one else had the solution. And look at the gratitude I got from you for it! And now everyone else pays has to suffer through your nonsensical bickering and wrecking this thread to save your ego. Last thing I want to do is put words in your mouth... Especially when we're all hoping you'll just close it altogether.


One thing is for sure , you validated my reasoning for offering to help folks individually and privately. Thank you for that.

Let me end this with your own words from your own mouth:
"Just maybe they screwed up the calibration". That's not me putting words in your mouth...thats you making yet another bullshit excuse and passing blame. Add this one to the... maybe my engine is too strong excuse or the... maybe the trans is faulty excuse or the... Dodge doesn't care excuse...Enough with your nonsense already. I'll add this excuse in quotes to the list of excuses you're trying to pedal for your inability to solve the issue you brought up. Keep telling everyone I'm putting words in your mouth. Lol

 

[Markp]

I think I know what's coming next.................

 

[Phast Hemi]

I think I know what's coming next.................

What is the excuse you try to peddle on the forum when the dealer tells you the car operates as designed but you can't get your red-eye to complete the 1-2 without hitting the limiter at track? Lol

Survey says:

1. Car is defective (5000)
2. Faulty trans tune (120)
3. Faulty transmission(80)
4. Engine too strong for trans(65)
5. Bad converter (45)
6. Dealer is wrong (39)
7. FCA doesn't care (2)
8. 2020 red-eye shifts 500 rpm higher than 2019(1)

Lolol. So many excuses they won't all fit in the 8 slots on the game board.

 

[DRAGRCR]

One thing is for sure , you validated my reasoning for offering to help folks individually and privately. Thank you for that.

Now you are on the right track. Please go help people secretly and leve me alone. Even if I am doing things you don't like. Just hold your tongue please. You have got some of my threads in the other forum locked and 3 in this forum locked. You obviously hate me along with the others in your click. Why not be nice and stop coming in like wrecking ball? I have never gone after you and attacked you personally in the past. I have never said anything about your ability to drive or race your car your ability to get your car down the track or the amazing times you are able to get on stock boost etc. I don't even know you that well.

Just so you know I did not need your help because I was getting help from others from the forum privately through PM's and Phone Calls. I was just keeping it on the down low.

Also, there is nothing wrong with saying maybe. If you don't know for sure. Yes a lot of what I have said is a maybe. Just like your idea to resolve the issue. That's a Maybe. But I don't cut you down for it. I just want to see proof. On a 2020 BTW.

 

[Ralph]

a

The hesitation I was experiencing mysteriously stopped with the SRT Tech in the car (Go figure) although it was doing it the night before. We installed a new flash upgrade anyway. I don't know if the hesitation is gone or just sleeping, waiting to spoil my day. As I put more miles on the car I will keep everyone posted. Maybe getting on the car heavily the night before caused something to change in the computer? Sorry if I caused any confusion!

I posted earlier that I experienced the shift hesitation and took the car to an SRT tech. Well, the hesitation has returned (never left but was unnoticed?) I want to try to consolidate some ideas that I hopefully have correctly gleaned from posts on this subject about what might be happening. Like others, I have experienced the hesitation between 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Usually one or the other but so far not both. I am wondering if the hesitation is caused by tire slippage. Once the tires start to spin, the max friction force is exceeded and additional torque produces an increase in tire spin which could cause an over-rev situation and a triggering of the rev limiter causing the hesitation. Because traction is dependent on the coefficient of friction (stickiness of tires, contact patch and road conditions), the weight of the car on the rear tires (static and dynamic) and engine torque, a sufficiently severe over-rev situation may not always occur. This might be why the Demon with it’s stickier tires and weight transferring suspension does not experience this hesitation. The hesitation of the Redeye without these extra goodies is just showing its weaknesses by hesitating during shifts. Anyway, my question for the group is this, Has anyone found that better tires and suspension upgrades have had any affect on the hesitation? I know that some have experienced the hesitation on the track (great videos by the way) with better tires, but the Demon has stickier tires with smaller diameter wheels and increased sidewalls with the suspension upgrades so maybe all are necessary to prevent over-rev? Driving a car with a mere 800hp has certain “peculiarities”. Whoda thunk? Anyway that’s my 2 cents!

 

[DRAGRCR]

a


I posted earlier that I experienced the shift hesitation and took the car to an SRT tech. Well, the hesitation has returned (never left but was unnoticed?) I want to try to consolidate some ideas that I hopefully have correctly gleaned from posts on this subject about what might be happening. Like others, I have experienced the hesitation between 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Usually one or the other but so far not both. I am wondering if the hesitation is caused by tire slippage. Once the tires start to spin, the max friction force is exceeded and additional torque produces an increase in tire spin which could cause an over-rev situation and a triggering of the rev limiter causing the hesitation. Because traction is dependent on the coefficient of friction (stickiness of tires, contact patch and road conditions), the weight of the car on the rear tires (static and dynamic) and engine torque, a sufficiently severe over-rev situation may not always occur. This might be why the Demon with it’s stickier tires and weight transferring suspension does not experience this hesitation. The hesitation of the Redeye without these extra goodies is just showing its weaknesses by hesitating during shifts. Anyway, my question for the group is this, Has anyone found that better tires and suspension upgrades have had any affect on the hesitation? I know that some have experienced the hesitation on the track (great videos by the way) with better tires, but the Demon has stickier tires with smaller diameter wheels and increased sidewalls with the suspension upgrades so maybe all are necessary to prevent over-rev? Driving a car with a mere 800hp has certain “peculiarities”. Whoda thunk? Anyway that’s my 2 cents!

On the street your theory is plausable.

But specicially on a good tire , the 315/50R17 ET STREET R's on the street it does not fix this. Not even close. Also the Demon DOES hiccup. There have been many threads on this. But in most cases it is minor and it will go away as the car learns or when you get on a better surface, or get better tires etc.

My car on the street with the ET Street R's would hold gears when in TRACK mode. So in drive from a dead stop you can roll the throttle down in first gear and get to WOT about 1/2 way throught first gear and the car will be moving forward real well and tracking and doing a rolling burnout and at that point it is hazing the tires and leaving grey marks (because it is not over driving the tires) and then when it shifts to second there is a huge hiccup and about a 8 foot gap in the marks and then they come back darker than ever. Two black lines all the way through second gear.......

It's that 8 foot gap that is a bitch. It's my contention that if the car shifted (in time or sooner) and did not hit the rev limit there would be minimal gap or no gap in the marks.

With my car the engine would crash hard into the rev limit. It was not suttle. In fact I actually think the car may have NEVER shifted under WOT. It could be the only way it was going to complete the shift was when the rev limit closed the throttle and reduced power. Once again, this is a maybe because there is no way to know for sure under the circumstances. Out of 31 passes it only completed the 1-2 shift on time ONCE and ESP (possibly Launch Assist) was reducing torque by about 100 foot pounds.

OK let me expand. If you eliminated the rev limit all together I suppose the motor would nose over at some point and then the trans would be able to complete the shift. So, yes it eventually would shift.

 

[Ralph]

On the street your theory is plausable.

But specicially on a good tire , the 315/50R17 ET STREET R's on the street it does not fix this. Not even close. Also the Demon DOES hiccup. There have been many threads on this. But in most cases it is minor and it will go away as the car learns or when you get on a better surface, or get better tires etc.

My car on the street with the ET Street R's would hold gears when in TRACK mode. So in drive from a dead stop you can roll the throttle down in first gear and get to WOT about 1/2 way throught first gear and the car will be moving forward real well and tracking and doing a rolling burnout and at that point it is hazing the tires and leaving grey marks (because it is not over driving the tires) and then when it shifts to second there is a huge hiccup and about a 8 foot gap in the marks and then they come back darker than ever. Two black lines all the way through second gear.......

It's that 8 foot gap that is a bitch. It's my contention that if the car shifted (in time or sooner) and did not hit the rev limit there would be minimal gap or no gap in the marks.

With my car the engine would crash hard into the rev limit. It was not suttle. In fact I actually think the car may have NEVER shifted under WOT. It could be the only way it was going to complete the shift was when the rev limit closed the throttle and reduced power. Once again, this is a maybe because there is no way to know for sure under the circumstances. Out of 31 passes it only completed the 1-2 shift on time ONCE and ESP (possibly Launch Assist) was reducing torque by about 100 foot pounds.

OK let me expand. If you eliminated the rev limit all together I suppose the motor would nose over at some point and then the trans would be able to complete the shift. So, yes it eventually would shift.

Greatly appreciate the feedback! I didn't know the Demon had the hiccup and with the additional facts you presented my theory is kaput. I've only driven my car on the street and with watching out for traffic, cops, the roar of the engine, tire spinning and what all, it's hard for me to know what's what. Guess I was hoping there was nothing wrong with the car. Oh well, back to the drawing board. Thanks again!

 

[EricG]

So I finally got an email from my dealer about having my engine and transmission logs looked at:
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FCA reviewed the recording’s Ed made and explained that the shift delay is normal based on certain conditions. If the engine is in full boost and you manually shift the computer will derate to prevent catastrophic damage. They did say that you would get the best shift performance out of the vehicle by using the automatic shift option in Track Mode. They do constantly review this things and update their product so I wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually released an update to improve shifting and drivability in your model year Red Eye. If you have any further questions give me a call.
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So it sounds like they recommend using the car/transmission in track mode and also with it in D for optimal performance....most of the time. I know my car will still do some hiccup'd shifts in D.

The short data logs I sent in I had the transmission in track mode in my custom setting but I was using the shift paddles(while in D) and letting the car auto upshift. I drive it a lot like that but have also recently started paddle-shifting when I have time to look and try to pop that shift right as she hits 6k rpms and that has been getting em some amazing shifts and acceleration/pulls...on the race track in Mexico of course...

I'm going to start driving more in D when I'm out with friends and see how the car behaves in roll races etc

 

[Hickster]

I'm saying, MAyBE, I ended up with black eyes in high school but learned what and how to use bras knuckles. Whatch out ma cha cho.

 

[Dutchman]

@EricG Thanks for the update. I'm still hoping they issue a drivability update.

 

[coolblue]

So I finally got an email from my dealer about having my engine and transmission logs looked at:
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"I wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually released an update to improve shifting and drivability in your model year Red Eye." If you have any further questions give me a call.

Soooo, they do acknowledge there's a problem. Or do they?

 

[DGatzby]

So I finally got an email from my dealer about having my engine and transmission logs looked at:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FCA reviewed the recording’s Ed made and explained that the shift delay is normal based on certain conditions. If the engine is in full boost and you manually shift the computer will derate to prevent catastrophic damage. They did say that you would get the best shift performance out of the vehicle by using the automatic shift option in Track Mode. They do constantly review this things and update their product so I wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually released an update to improve shifting and drivability in your model year Red Eye. If you have any further questions give me a call.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So it sounds like they recommend using the car/transmission in track mode and also with it in D for optimal performance....most of the time. I know my car will still do some hiccup'd shifts in D.

The short data logs I sent in I had the transmission in track mode in my custom setting but I was using the shift paddles(while in D) and letting the car auto upshift. I drive it a lot like that but have also recently started paddle-shifting when I have time to look and try to pop that shift right as she hits 6k rpms and that has been getting em some amazing shifts and acceleration/pulls...on the race track in Mexico of course...

I'm going to start driving more in D when I'm out with friends and see how the car behaves in roll races etc

I have been able to do it over and over. Tranny in Track, auto like you say, partial throttle (careful with the right foot) at the 1-2 shift, it shifts hard and rocks! I was out tonight and made it shift so hard, it begun to spin the big Cup 2’s as much as I would have wanted into second gear. On the street especially we can afford to hold it back just a bit, and that is a ticket to fun.

It is interesting to play a game at that point and see how many gears you can make it bark like that in.

 

[Phast Hemi]

As I've mentioned previously, the issue with the car hitting the limiter at the shift is not a flaw in the design of the car.

That being said, I'm not too proud to admit the way you set the car up can be causing your issue here.

This issue of hitting the limiter at the shift is not unique to red-eyes and just happened to me in a tournament on Sunday where I lost a race by a bumper to a fox body mustang because of it.

After I lost, I stayed at the track to find out why this occurred and tested in the same lane for the rest of the day. The track prep was poor and almost non existent beyond the 60ft. After trying several things to resolve, knocking a pound of air out of the rear drs ended up being the solution and resulted in clean shifts for that surface on that day.

 

[EricG]

As I've mentioned previously, the issue with the car hitting the limiter at the shift is not a flaw in the design of the car.

That being said, I'm not too proud to admit the way you set the car up can be causing your issue here.

This issue of hitting the limiter at the shift is not unique to red-eyes and just happened to me in a tournament on Sunday where I lost a race by a bumper to a fox body mustang because of it.

After I lost, I stayed at the track to find out why this occurred and tested in the same lane for the rest of the day. The track prep was poor and almost non existent beyond the 60ft. After trying several things to resolve, knocking a pound of air out of the rear drs ended up being the solution and resulted in clean shifts for that surface on that day.

So are you saying that wheel slip/spin and a build up of RPMs too quick is causing it? I'm pretty sure I've had hiccup shifts in full traction situations though, and with sticky tires on too, but they were at highway psi, not deflated. Haven;t been on the drag strip since last fall sadly, hard to remember what my car was doing then...

 

[Phast Hemi]

So are you saying that wheel slip/spin and a build up of RPMs too quick is causing it? I'm pretty sure I've had hiccup shifts in full traction situations though, and with sticky tires on too, but they were at highway psi, not deflated. Haven;t been on the drag strip since last fall sadly, hard to remember what my car was doing then...

Yes

 

[DRAGRCR]

As I've mentioned previously, the issue with the car hitting the limiter at the shift is not a flaw in the design of the car.

That being said, I'm not too proud to admit the way you set the car up can be causing your issue here.

This issue of hitting the limiter at the shift is not unique to red-eyes and just happened to me in a tournament on Sunday where I lost a race by a bumper to a fox body mustang because of it.

After I lost, I stayed at the track to find out why this occurred and tested in the same lane for the rest of the day. The track prep was poor and almost non existent beyond the 60ft. After trying several things to resolve, knocking a pound of air out of the rear drs ended up being the solution and resulted in clean shifts for that surface on that day.

Sometimes it is just bad luck. But most of the time there is a reason and you don't always discover the reason. It can be very frustrating. The example I posted about at Extreme Raceway in my thread is a good example. I thought that track was the epitome of prep and what actually happened was they did their initial prep and then pretty much ignored the track for a few hours. So my first passes were OK but then I struggled to the point I thought something had gone wrong with the car. Seriously. Then later they just happened to do a full prep right in front of me while I waited with my hood open. THAT is when I discovered there was nothing wrong with the car (or my setup).


As a racer I am almost NEVER able to watch the starting line and the track to know when and how often they are prepping. Some tracks or events you just assume the prep will be on point and some tracks like Irwindale you just assume the opposite. So, I am almost always a couple pounds above the minimum suggested by Mickey Thompson (Hellcats are heavy so they typically need more pressure). When I go to other tracks that prep really well I will let the pressure sneak up closer to the maximum suggested if there is no money on the line.


In my Demon a hiccup would add .1 to .15 to the ET.

 

[Hpindy]

I'm going to throw my thoughts in here .

On a normal bases these cars shift just fine . There are a lot of variables that can cause the "hiccup " that only a few cars are seeing . If SRT lowered the shift points any further or made other adjustments to compensate for this "hiccup" then ther cars would slow down . The only time I have any shift issues is when the tires break loose and it overshoots the shift . I make the neccessary adjustments so it doesn't happen again . Or if the track prep sucks and there is no hope of good traction that day pack up and leave or try testing other things . As far as I'm concerned there is nothing wrong with the car it's self its other external variable that are causing the problem.

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[Phast Hemi]

Sometimes it is just bad luck. But most of the time there is a reason and you don't always discover the reason. It can be very frustrating. The example I posted about at Extreme Raceway in my thread is a good example. I thought that track was the epitome of prep and what actually happened was they did their initial prep and then pretty much ignored the track for a few hours. So my first passes were OK but then I struggled to the point I thought something had gone wrong with the car. Seriously. Then later they just happened to do a full prep right in front of me while I waited with my hood open. THAT is when I discovered there was nothing wrong with the car (or my setup).


As a racer I am almost NEVER able to watch the starting line and the track to know when and how often they are prepping. Some tracks or events you just assume the prep will be on point and some tracks like Irwindale you just assume the opposite. So, I am almost always a couple pounds above the minimum suggested by Mickey Thompson (Hellcats are heavy so they typically need more pressure). When I go to other tracks that prep really well I will let the pressure sneak up closer to the maximum suggested if there is no money on the line.


In my Demon a hiccup would add .1 to .15 to the ET.

To add a little more context here, I did walk the track at the beginning and the prep was marginal even then...which caused me to pull all the power I could pull out of the car at launch and start with .5 pounds less air than I would normally run with that same tune on better prep. I was able to get down the right lane but not the left. When they paired us up, l got put in the left lane and had no choice. I've seen track conditions change from one pass to the next and setup is the key. The answer required me to run a lower tire pressure than I would normally run. It was 1/8th mile racing so, I took a chance in the hope of finding a solution. I would not normally, nor have I ever run that tire at that pressure....but that is what was needed that day. Had I known 3 passes, sooner, I would have won that race. Oftentimes, I learn more when losing than when winning

 

[Markp]

The Redeye 1/4 mile list proves hiccup or no hiccup these cars are fast. Decent weather, decent track with decent DA Redeyes are mid to low 10s all day with little experience. Once you learn the car 10.5s and higher are your bad passes. These cars in prime conditions should be 10.1-10.2s all day. The SS should be at least a tenth faster maybe more.