TNREDEYE '21 REWB

[Perfracer]

So, does anyone know why the caliper design change for ‘21? What the reason is?


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[DRAGRCR]

So, does anyone know why the caliper design change for ‘21? What the reason is?


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I read the 2021 brakes take the same pads so the calipers are likely the same. It's the larger diameter Rotor that moves the caliper out causing it to contact the wheel. Word is they had to eliminate the Copper from the brake pads due to California Emissions laws and they made the brakes larger to compensate. But maybe they just had room with OEM wheels and wanted stronger brakes.

 

[TNREDEYE]

I read the 2021 brakes take the same pads so the calipers are likely the same.

I installed the same Powerstop pads on the '21 as the '19. That part of the caliper is the same. I'm about to take some measurements to see if the calipers appear to be the same. If so, then one of my options may be to change out the rotors and just leave the pre '21 style Hellcat setup on the car. I'll know more about that in the next few hours.

 

[TNREDEYE]

Here's what I know so far:

1 - The rotors as well as the hats are completely different parts that just happen to look a lot alike. The hat is ~1/2" bigger dia on the '21 as well as the rotor.

2 - The calipers measure similarly in a lot of places but carry two different part #'s.
I'm not 100% sure they are different in any functional way though. Further measuring and just general digging is required on this part.

3 - The spindle/caliper mount(the cast thing that the ball joints and tie rod ends attach to) carries a different part number. This one worries me the most. If it's different then I'm looking at having to replace those as well as install smaller brakes to get the 18" wheels on this car.

I'll do more measuring to see if I can possibly just change out rotors/hats and the spindle/caliper mounts and keep the stock calipers.

My wife suggested that maybe I just modify the '19 and leave the '21 stock and use it as the ride around car. I'm liking that idea more all the time. lol

Also, more pics added in post #3.

 

[Motorcat]

I have a 2021 REWB that should be delivered in March. Called Power Stop regarding Z26 pads, I have put them on my last three Hellcats. I was told they are not available for the 2021 at this time.
Looks like I got wrong information. Could you confirm the part numbers for front and rear.

Also I took my one of my front mounted Triumph Roasters to the dealer prior to ordering the 2021. We put it on a 2021 REWB they had in stock and it fit fine. Size is 20x11.

 

[DRAGRCR]

Here's what I know so far:

1 - The rotors as well as the hats are completely different parts that just happen to look a lot alike. The hat is ~1/2" bigger dia on the '21 as well as the rotor.

2 - The calipers measure similarly in a lot of places but carry two different part #'s.
I'm not 100% sure they are different in any functional way though. Further measuring and just general digging is required on this part.

3 - The spindle/caliper mount(the cast thing that the ball joints and tie rod ends attach to) carries a different part number. This one worries me the most. If it's different then I'm looking at having to replace those as well as install smaller brakes to get the 18" wheels on this car.

I'll do more measuring to see if I can possibly just change out rotors/hats and the spindle/caliper mounts and keep the stock calipers.

My wife suggested that maybe I just modify the '19 and leave the '21 stock and use it as the ride around car. I'm liking that idea more all the time. lol

Also, more pics added in post #3.

Your Wife is smart. You already beat on the 19. So it would make sense to modify that one. Except the weight difference and I think the 19 has a sunroof cutting down on Helmet clearance. Maybe. OR, Swap front brakes from car to car, complete with spindle. I doubt the control arms are different or anything else.......

 

[Slowpoke387]

So im wondering how tight the wheel/brake clearance actually is. Considering how many people swap wheels around my concern would be that ’20 and down wheels might not clear the ‘21 brakes if someone wanted to switch out to maybe an older style oem.

 

[TNREDEYE]

I have a 2021 REWB that should be delivered in March. Called Power Stop regarding Z26 pads, I have put them on my last three Hellcats. I was told they are not available for the 2021 at this time.
Looks like I got wrong information. Could you confirm the part numbers for front and rear.

Also I took my one of my front mounted Triumph Roasters to the dealer prior to ordering the 2021. We put it on a 2021 REWB they had in stock and it fit fine. Size is 20x11.

I'll be checking out the pad #'s soon. I'll also be measuring the stock '19 vs '21 pads since I have them both sitting here. That's not really a today thing though..

As for the 20" aftermarkets, I have a set of 20x12 Stance wheels that are currently on the '21. They fit fine with plenty of room around the caliper.

 

[TNREDEYE]

Your Wife is smart. You already beat on the 19. So it would make sense to modify that one. Except the weight difference and I think the 19 has a sunroof cutting down on Helmet clearance. Maybe. OR, Swap front brakes from car to car, complete with spindle. I doubt the control arms are different or anything else.......

You've met her. She's smarter than the average bear. lol
One of the top 10 reasons for getting a different car is the sunroof, both for the weight savings as well as the headroom.
She and I just had the conversation about swapping brakes. That may be a good way to go other than it permanently keeps the '19 from having skinnies on it.

I just did some measuring on the spindle mounts. It's not particularly easy to get precise measurements regarding the caliper bolt locations in relation to the spindle. Some quick measurements though tell me there's a solid .200 difference in them w/ the '21 being further out. At least I now know that the spindle mounts will need changing regardless which brakes get bolted on it.

 

[TNREDEYE]

So im wondering how tight the wheel/brake clearance actually is. Considering how many people swap wheels around my concern would be that ’20 and down wheels might not clear the ‘21 brakes if someone wanted to switch out to maybe an older style oem.

I've got you covered on that one Slowpoke. I have a cpl of the stock Devil's rims from the '19 laying right beside the '21 so I stuck one on just to see. Plenty of room.

 

[TNREDEYE]

Another UPDATE:
I spoke with Luke @ Steve White's today. Knowledgeable guy, very helpful.
He wasn't even aware that the brakes on the '21 RE were different. I gave him the details I know and he began looking up part #'s. Turns out there are several front suspension pieces that carry different part #'s from the '20 and older. Rotors, calipers, knuckles/spindle and two different lower arms(there names escape me). So in short, due to the newness of all this there really isn't any clear path to getting the drag fronts on my '21 at this moment other than to perhaps pull all the affected pieces from a scrapped ScatPack and replace the stuff as a unit.

I have some time so I'll just let things ride for a bit and see what pops up...

 

[Slowpoke387]

Another UPDATE:
I spoke with Luke @ Steve White's today. Knowledgeable guy,
He wasn't even aware that the brakes on the '21 RE were different.

This made me lol

 

[TNREDEYE]

This made me lol

Yeah, that didn't exactly come out right. lol
Luke really is a knowledgeable guy, just not particularly knowledgeable about the '21 brake change.

 

[Speedy!]

I'd check if 2019 rotors aren't an easy solution. You've got some to test fit right there

 

[TNREDEYE]

I'd check if 2019 rotors aren't an easy solution. You've got some to test fit right there

I've been down that road. I've had the brakes apart on both cars and there's just a lot of parts that are different. I could swap all of the parts from one car to the other but then the '19 is no longer original and it can't accept the 18" stuff. I just don't want to move the issue from one car to the other.

 

[TNREDEYE]

I may look into seeing if one of the brake companies is aware of this and if they're working on a solution. Do any of you have any personal experience dealing with a specific technical person at one of the better brake companies? Obviously I'm looking for someone that's had experience with stopping these big behemoths!

 

[Speedy!]

So even though the P/N are different, you confirmed fitment if 2019 rotor is a problem to fit? Sometimes P/Ns change but no change in obvious design. If the caliper is the same, or even mounts the same, uses the same pad, etc, there's only a few other things that would prevent a direct 2019 rotor swap, at least that I can think of. Then you find some 2015 - 2019 rotors from a salvage, have them resurfaced, and problem solved....in theory LOL.

 

[TNREDEYE]

So even though the P/N are different, you confirmed fitment if 2019 rotor is a problem to fit? Sometimes P/Ns change but no change in obvious design. If the caliper is the same, or even mounts the same, uses the same pad, etc, there's only a few other things that would prevent a direct 2019 rotor swap, at least that I can think of. Then you find some 2015 - 2019 rotors from a salvage, have them resurfaced, and problem solved....in theory LOL.

I've covered most of this in the preceding posts. There is no doubt that the rotor will slip onto the spindle.
There is a possibility that the caliper is the same. I have some questions about that though. The part #'s are different but they're cosmetically different so *maybe* the only reason for that change is the "SRT" on them rather than "Brembo".
The knuckle is clearly different. It's mount bolt holes are outboard roughly the amount of the difference in radius of the '19 vs '21 rotor. Changing those out to '20 or earlier is a possible option.
The two lower arms carry different part numbers. No other Challenger has this set of arms from from '15 through '21.. including the '21 Hellcat. This leads me to think that there's likely some functional difference or why the change? They *may* fit and act the same as all the other arms though. That has yet to be figured out.
My simplest option is to spend a Saturday swapping parts back and forth between the two cars until I know for sure what it'll take to put the regular Hellcat stuff on this car. Knocking ball joints loose and such just isn't what I want to be doing with either of these cars right now.

Just another one of life's many everyday challenges. lol

 

[Speedy!]

Yep, I read through the posts I just wasn't clear if you'd tried to fit the rotor or not and knew for sure it wouldn't work. That'd be a simple fix if so.

Example, on my old 2002 4Runner we learned Tundra brakes were a direct swap, rotor and caliper, literally just bolted on. All I had to do was trim the dust shield for the MUCH bigger caliper. This meant I was able to put together a $200 big brake kit for that vehicle essentially.

I'd not be up for swapping suspension stuff around personally.

 

[TNREDEYE]

Yep, I read through the posts I just wasn't clear if you'd tried to fit the rotor or not and knew for sure it wouldn't work. That'd be a simple fix if so.

Example, on my old 2002 4Runner we learned Tundra brakes were a direct swap, rotor and caliper, literally just bolted on. All I had to do was trim the dust shield for the MUCH bigger caliper. This meant I was able to put together a $200 big brake kit for that vehicle essentially.

I'd not be up for swapping suspension stuff around personally.

It would have been really nice if the difference was just in the caliper, not the spindle. Powerstop makes a replacement Hellcat one piece rotor for about $125. IF the lower arms are functionally the same then I may be able to just replace the knuckles and be in decent shape.
I may spend some time over the weekend crawling around under both cars measuring the arms to see if there's any obvious difference between them.