Looking for opinions on my proposed Whipple build

[Snowman]

OK, so I've always said the smartest people I know are the ones that realize what they DON'T know. I'll be the first to admit I don't know squat about superchargers or computer controlled cars. Ask me about exotic woods and I know my sh%t, carburetors and distributors and I can hold my own, superchargers and computers, well you may as well just call me Sleepy Joe. I'm hoping to get feedback from some of the members on this site that ARE experts. And, unfortunately, have learned by doing it the wrong way first.

My goal is to build a fast street car. First and foremost, a street car. I'm not looking to build a race car that can somewhat be driven on the street. Don't get me wrong, I may take it to the strip one or two times a year, but I want to build something that is as friendly, or better, that stock. I would not be at all uncommon for the wife and I to jump in this car and drive 200-300 miles one way to stay out of town for the weekend, but also have the ability to embarrass almost anything else around town. My goal is for this car to have a minimum of 925 whp on pump gas. BTW, this is not my daily, nor is it my first weekend warrior. This is a "toy" to play with in good weather.

I'm starting with a 2021 Super Stock. It is currently sitting on the assemble line waiting for the plant to start back up again. The first thing I did was to research on this site, and others, so find the most competent builder/tuner. After a lot of reading I settled on OST Dyno, who coincidentally happens to only be 30 minutes away from me. I scheduled an appointment and sat down with Micah last week to discuss my build. After explaining what I was looking for, and learning an incredible lot, we settled on the following:

4.5 Whipple w/big bore oval TB
ID 1050x injectors
Unlocked PCM
DSS carbon driveshaft
ER12S plugs
Pinned crank
180 Thermostat
Flextune

After all of the reading I've done, I also plan to do the following prior to taking it to OST:
HHP Demon springs - already have
315/50/17 ET Street R
Diablosport suspension controller
DIRS brace - already have
AAD Drag Pack

It sounds like this combo should net me around 850 whp on 93 and something more on ethanol, depending on the percentage. I get the impression this will be a relatively tame build and would have the potential for significantly more, should I want it. I'm hoping it will have great street manners as well.

Please help me and let me know what you think about this. Especially those that have already gone the Whipple route.

I really appreciate the help.

 

[moparjim]

If you are going with a flex tune I would think you need bigger than 1050's.
I don't know squad about the Whipple admittedly.

 

[Weather Man]

The problem with leaning on pump 93 that hard is that it has to be perfect 93 every single time you fill and even that may not be enough. See a LOT of this in the Coyote world and then you hear about the guy rebuilding his motor a month later.

Put it on the corn.

 

[Marc W]

The new street version of the 3.0 Gen 5 Whipple that is just now being introduced would be a better choice than the 4.5 for your otherwise stock motor. While not as big, it will be much more efficient and in my opinion, better suited to a 6.2L motor. I have the 4.5 on mine and it has been great, but it is a full race 426 and can use all of that big thing. At least find out everything about the new Gen 5’s before you commit.

 

[Snowman]

The problem with leaning on pump 93 that hard is that it has to be perfect 93 every single time you fill and even that may not be enough. See a LOT of this in the Coyote world and then you hear about the guy rebuilding his motor a month later.

Put it on the corn.

My builder and I discussed spinning the 2.7 faster and he said exactly what you just said. He did not feel a bad tank of 93 would be an issue on the 4.5. Something about reading the ethanol level, or lack thereof, and accessing different tables.

 

[EricG]

Everyone in my area is really starting to favor the flex-fuel part added to the fuel rail so you can run either E85 or premium unleaded straight or a blend of any ratio in your tank...and your worst power scenario ends up running on regular premium unleaded. I see you included flextune in your mod list, seems like the way to go. Can't you could just pulley/tune the stock motor/blower and be at or close to your power goal? Could always build it up later if it breaks or you just get the desire for more power.

 

[EricG]

The problem with leaning on pump 93 that hard is that it has to be perfect 93 every single time you fill and even that may not be enough. See a LOT of this in the Coyote world and then you hear about the guy rebuilding his motor a month later.

Put it on the corn.

Small world @Weather Man ! I grew up in St. Cloud and went to SCSU and got a degree in meteorology

 

[WhipCat]

Build the engine before it goes boom. It will finally go boom eventually. Matter of when not if.

Your gonna drive it hard, your gonna stomp on it, you gonna race other stuff, your not gonna get the best fuel all the time, your gonna drive the car when it’s heat soaked, your gonna enjoy the car greatly. Spend the money and build it to handle the power.

I would recommend E85 to run strictly for a safer fuel. Use the flex in a pinch to get it around, but don’t wail on it on 93.

Run a big pulley to keep the boost safe and work your way into more boost.

It will take some time to work the bugs out after some tune revisions to get the car situated correctly. Start slow and take it easy on the car and build the confidence up before you rip on it.

Be smart, and drop 15k and build the engine up.

I would even consider a complete rebuild of a second engine and then swap that over and keep your current SS engine as a backup.

Be smart. When you go this route I can assure you that 1 of 10 guys pull this off correctly and don’t fuck it up. The rest start the very long journey of the racing rabbit hole. Most get lost and quit. I was lucky enough to stay dedicated and not be scared of the costs involved. It took a over a year to dial the car in over an engine rebuild, setting the suspension up, and mainly data logging and making tune adjustments. I’ve had my car for over three years and it makes 1000 whp on the street and it can drive anywhere. I run E85 all the time, never 93. Lots of things to think about, but bolting on 1000 whp like you want is not gonna work long. It’s not possible. You can’t just bolt a 1000 who and go have fun and wail on it. Shit takes work and energy.

Also remember, your tuner/parts guy/builder will do whatever you want. They will say it’s fine. And when it explodes it’s not their fault. That’s how it works. You take full responsibility, and when you gotta fix a hole in your block they are right there ready to order all those new shiny parts and start the whole process over again. They make the money and you enjoy the sweet misery of building a 1000whp car.

 

[droptopp]

^+1 stout advice for any build - doing it right the
first time from a big name shop will save you tens of thousands down the road.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

925 wheel on pump gas (93) is a tall order from the 9.2, on E85 yes, on 93 I don’t think so

 

[Snowman]

^+1 stout advice for any build - doing it right the
first time from a big name shop will save you tens of thousands down the road.

That’s why I went with OST. The 426 is beyond my budget right now. My rational is that I’d rather have the bigger SC and run a more conservative tune than use the stock SC and run it on the edge of destruction.

I’m not trying to disagree, I don’t know squat compared to everyone else here. I’m just trying to explain my line of thinking.

 

[Weather Man]

My builder and I discussed spinning the 2.7 faster and he said exactly what you just said. He did not feel a bad tank of 93 would be an issue on the 4.5. Something about reading the ethanol level, or lack thereof, and accessing different tables.

The 4.5 will be loafing and your iat lower, but cylinder pressure is what it is for a given HP, 93 can only handle so much. Now a flex tune may be setup to pull enough timing that you will be good to go no matter what. I would be amazed if the tuner let you make 925 on pump 93.

Not apples to apples but my 08 Mustang GT with a turbo made 600 on 11 psi with pump 91 and anymore timing or boost induced knock. Same boost on E85 made 711 with all the timing.

I'm surprised your tuner didn't recommend the new 3.8 whipple.

 

[vortecd]

"Ask me about exotic woods and I know my sh%t,"
We used to see some but not much anymore. I deal mostly with Walnut, Maple, Oak and Cherry

 

[fumanchu182]

That’s why I went with OST. The 426 is beyond my budget right now. My rational is that I’d rather have the bigger SC and run a more conservative tune than use the stock SC and run it on the edge of destruction.

I’m not trying to disagree, I don’t know squat compared to everyone else here. I’m just trying to explain my line of thinking.

I use Mike @ OST currently and you can run 93 on your car but it will be safe and conservative, the way it should be. These cars find the limits of 93 real fast. Before the track I get the tank to 1/4th and then add a gallon of Sonoco 260GT or 100 depending on what is available. MS109 is also and option. Its added insurance.

 

[MurderCat]

Just did a similar build. Build the engine 100% first and go with a solid mopar shop. Most places will say anything to take your money and don't give a flying shit about the car/customer. (Learned that lesson the hard way)

 

[Snowman]

Just did a similar build. Build the engine 100% first and go with a solid mopar shop. Most places will say anything to take your money and don't give a flying shit about the car/customer. (Learned that lesson the hard way)

I read your post, really made me think. It was painful just reading it. From everything I’ve read, if OST can’t get you sorted out, no one can.

 

[Marc0779]

OK, so I've always said the smartest people I know are the ones that realize what they DON'T know. I'll be the first to admit I don't know squat about superchargers or computer controlled cars. Ask me about exotic woods and I know my sh%t, carburetors and distributors and I can hold my own, superchargers and computers, well you may as well just call me Sleepy Joe. I'm hoping to get feedback from some of the members on this site that ARE experts. And, unfortunately, have learned by doing it the wrong way first.

My goal is to build a fast street car. First and foremost, a street car. I'm not looking to build a race car that can somewhat be driven on the street. Don't get me wrong, I may take it to the strip one or two times a year, but I want to build something that is as friendly, or better, that stock. I would not be at all uncommon for the wife and I to jump in this car and drive 200-300 miles one way to stay out of town for the weekend, but also have the ability to embarrass almost anything else around town. My goal is for this car to have a minimum of 925 whp on pump gas. BTW, this is not my daily, nor is it my first weekend warrior. This is a "toy" to play with in good weather.

I'm starting with a 2021 Super Stock. It is currently sitting on the assemble line waiting for the plant to start back up again. The first thing I did was to research on this site, and others, so find the most competent builder/tuner. After a lot of reading I settled on OST Dyno, who coincidentally happens to only be 30 minutes away from me. I scheduled an appointment and sat down with Micah last week to discuss my build. After explaining what I was looking for, and learning an incredible lot, we settled on the following:

4.5 Whipple w/big bore oval TB
ID 1050x injectors
Unlocked PCM
DSS carbon driveshaft
ER12S plugs
Pinned crank
180 Thermostat
Flextune

After all of the reading I've done, I also plan to do the following prior to taking it to OST:
HHP Demon springs - already have
315/50/17 ET Street R
Diablosport suspension controller
DIRS brace - already have
AAD Drag Pack

It sounds like this combo should net me around 850 whp on 93 and something more on ethanol, depending on the percentage. I get the impression this will be a relatively tame build and would have the potential for significantly more, should I want it. I'm hoping it will have great street manners as well.

Please help me and let me know what you think about this. Especially those that have already gone the Whipple route.

I really appreciate the help.

Id 1300 injectors,flex fuel stock boost or maybe 2.85 upper metco,pd4 brace and aad arms dual boost a pump thats it if you want it to be dependable