Demon 1/4 mile range

[Boris]

Didn't they say Jim Wilder also had a 9.6X pass but Leah's was a touch quicker at 9.65 so that is what they went with.

I know i read that somewhere. How much does Jim Wilder weigh?

I think Tim Barth had posted on FB about a stock setup Demon with just a tune running 9.60s. So im sure Speedy is onto something

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

I think Tim Barth had posted on FB about a stock setup Demon with just a tune running 9.60s. So im sure Speedy is onto something

A stock setup Demon without a tune ran 9.6s too... a tuned one should easily surpass that.

 

[Demon1]

Didn't they say Jim Wilder also had a 9.6X pass but Leah's was a touch quicker at 9.65 so that is what they went with.

I know i read that somewhere. How much does Jim Wilder weigh?

I think Tim Barth had posted on FB about a stock setup Demon with just a tune running 9.60s. So im sure Speedy is onto something

It was reported that Jim Wilder ran 9.66.

 

[hell on wheels]

The Devils Bracket Car

 

[motorhead]

Looks like the advance is variable, but in some spots 8 degrees, others it's as much as 14.

I get your point, but imagine if you had a tune that kept the max above say 4,000 RPM but softened a bit below 4,000.....kinda a hybrid between 800 and 840 to help get off the line. That's kinda what I'm talking about.

This is no different than making mechanical (weights and springs) or vacuum advance timing adjustments with a distributor. There are just other factors in play with the PCM that will trim the numbers based upon a variety of variables met/not-met. Sometimes locking these tables out simplifies the tuning process... just like running a distributor.

And no one in their right mind (or at least when not class racing) limits themselves to a sub-standard tire. Best tire and traction possible - period.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

And no one in their right mind (or at least when not class racing) limits themselves to a sub-standard tire. Best tire and traction possible - period.

The conditions that day determine which tire will perform best. Most guys can't cut low 1.3s on a 15" slick but the Demon did it on stock DRs.
I agree with your statement, just putting it out there that it isn't a 1 tire fits all, different conditions call for different tires.

 

[Boris]

A stock setup Demon without a tune ran 9.6s too... a tuned one should easily surpass that.

Should but hasn't.

I went back and looked
ID1300s, E90 with TCM and PCM Barth/Hemituner tune it went 9.450@141.22

Done in Texas and posted 5 days ago. What is the DA in Texas this time of year?

 

[Blkout]

A stock setup Demon without a tune ran 9.6s too... a tuned one should easily surpass that.

Which one?

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

The very same Demon that Leah and Jim drove... the one you're all chasing.
Unless someone has proof otherwise, it was with a stock car.
Ron has said how he could have beaten their time (un-tuned) if he didn't run out of gas, no reason to think we need a tune to get there.
Just because it wasn't done by one of the people on this forum doesn't mean it wasn't done.
That's kinda the thing about being the fastest and/or holding a record - you're the only one to have done it.

 

[Blkout]

The very same Demon that Leah and Jim drove... the one you're all chasing.
Unless someone has proof otherwise, it was with a stock car.
Ron has said how he could have beaten their time (un-tuned) if he didn't run out of gas, no reason to think we need a tune to get there.
Just because it wasn't done by one of the people on this forum doesn't mean it wasn't done.
That's kinda the thing about being the fastest and/or holding a record - you're the only one to have done it.

Has a neutral party not associated with FCA/SRT proven it was showroom floor stock? I haven't seen proof. The argument works just as well in reverse. Show the proof otherwise I'm inclined to believe this particular car was a little hotter than what you could buy from a dealer.

Ron's car was also not showroom stock at the event. How quickly people choose to forget...

 

[Demon1]

Has a neutral party not associated with FCA/SRT proven it was showroom floor stock? I haven't seen proof. The argument works just as well in reverse. Show the proof otherwise I'm inclined to believe this particular car was a little hotter than what you could buy from a dealer.

Ron's car was also not showroom stock at the event. How quickly people choose to forget...

I’m not aware of anyone running as fast as Leah. I am curious as to what you would consider “proof”. Is it a complete tear down, or something less? I just don’t know how you can prove it to satisfy everyone.

BTW, kudos to @DRAGRCR (Ron) for disclosing all. I met him in Houston last year and he was more than willing to help anyone looking for assistance or advice.

 

[Blkout]

I’m not aware of anyone running as fast as Leah. I am curious as to what you would consider “proof”. Is it a complete tear down, or something less? I just don’t know how you can prove it to satisfy everyone.

BTW, kudos to @DRAGRCR (Ron) for disclosing all. I met him in Houston last year and he was more than willing to help anyone looking for assistance or advice.

Proof would require a teardown by a neutral party with the experience to know what they're looking for. Without that, the record means nothing since anything could have been done to that car with no way to prove otherwise.

Alternatively, if the record had been set by a car purchased from the showroom floor at a random dealership, that would also be legit.

 

[Demon1]

Proof would require a teardown by a neutral party with the experience to know what they're looking for. Without that, the record means nothing since anything could have been done to that car with no way to prove otherwise.

Alternatively, if the record had been set by a car purchased from the showroom floor at a random dealership, that would also be legit.

So effectively there is no way to prove a new record because nobody is going to go thru that process.

 

[DRAGRCR]

I think we can all agree it's BS. I'd like to hear about SRT's communication with NHRA too. If you recall NHRA issued Dodge the Demon "ban" letter prior to its production. I don't know if that was purely part of Dodge's marketing campaign or whether it was a legitimate NHRA issuance of a true ban at their owned facilities. As a result, many NHRA sanctioned tracks do adhere to the ban if the car goes under 10.00 without the cage and other safety features.

The Ban letter from Glen Gray is real. Per Jim Wilder they did all their testing and set the record and everything was fine. Then word got back to the higher up at the office of NHRA and they shit their pants and mailed that letter to Dodge. Would you or I get that? No. But this was someone they needed to make an exapmle out of.

 

[DRAGRCR]

So effectively there is no way to prove a new record because nobody is going to go thru that process.

I asked a well known tuner and he said he could tell if it was tuned by data logging. But when I pressed him he could not actually tell me what the timing number is that should be commanded. There are some people that think they know but it has been a general consensus that the car software has a way of optimizing it's self. For instance if it is not street driven and is only tracked on well prepped track. Definately the trans tune adapts. And, the car goes faster. So, is the engine tune part of that process? I don't know. Have these supposed people that are going to data log my car looked at a car that has been set on kill and exclusively raced on the track and laid down great pass after great pass looked at the total timing commanded on MANY cars set up like that? I think if you want to verify my tune we are going to let Jim Wilder have his Tech at FCA review it via sattelite like he offered. Or any person that wants to pony up the cash and has a sympathetic dealership, me and you and the dealership tech connect to my ALDL and view the files together. FCA has installed tattle tales that the tech can look at. I am 100% willing to work with someone that wants to verify my tune, but it has to be a fair and understandable process. So, I agree, can someone come up with a fair and understandable process and willing to go through with it, is the question.

My car has wheels/tires and a #14 battery and the washer fluid is drained. And I do beleive it is still getting faster every pass. It actually surprised me what it did resently in Houston.

 

[Speedy!]

NHRA making an example out of Dodge???

If Jim ran a 9.66 that's great, it means they were dialed in and didn't just get one lucky run and they should have advertised that IMO. If they had several in the 9.7s that'd be great too as it would show consistency in the platform. The best run to date from a private owner has been a 9.78 at 137 in 1600 DA according to the time slip list. It says stock Nittos but not sure of any other changes. That's close enough I think assuming no other changes. It just took the right conditions. I think I've gotten what I needed to know. Time for testing

 

[Speedy!]

I asked a well known tuner and he said he could tell if it was tuned by data logging. But when I pressed him he could not actually tell me what the timing number is that should be commanded. There are some people that think they know but it has been a general consensus that the car software has a way of optimizing it's self. For instance if it is not street driven and is only tracked on well prepped track. Definately the trans tune adapts. And, the car goes faster. So, is the engine tune part of that process? I don't know. Have these supposed people that are going to data log my car looked at a car that has been set on kill and exclusively raced on the track and laid down great pass after great pass looked at the total timing commanded on MANY cars set up like that? I think if you want to verify my tune we are going to let Jim Wilder have his Tech at FCA review it via sattelite like he offered. Or any person that wants to pony up the cash and has a sympathetic dealership, me and you and the dealership tech connect to my ALDL and view the files together. FCA has installed tattle tales that the tech can look at. I am 100% willing to work with someone that wants to verify my tune, but it has to be a fair and understandable process. So, I agree, can someone come up with a fair and understandable process and willing to go through with it, is the question.

My car has wheels/tires and a #14 battery and the washer fluid is drained. And I do beleive it is still getting faster every pass. It actually surprised me what it did resently in Houston.

I don't think it would require satellite up links or anything. It's pretty simple to reasonably see that the tune is factory stock. There could be torque management items to check but easily done, and the timing table is the timing table. Doesn't matter how it's driven. There are a TON of trans tables and you're right the car does change those based on driving style, but that doesn't matter either and could be logged (I had to log mine to get the shift points to do what I wanted). Those trans tables mainly impact how soon or how late the car upshifts at part throttle, so not really relevant to 1/4 mile WOT runs.

The simplest way to check would be to simply download the tune from your car with HPT and do a compare against a known factory tune file which is easily obtained. The software will highlight any differences.

Having said that, are people questioning your car being stock tune? I don't see why they would be it seems to run what you'd expect and one other is noted in the 1/4 mile list as being right there on stock tires as well.

 

[hellno]

View attachment 5004
This is what I keep an eye on.
This number seems to determine how
Fast I make a run.
The power chiller runs at 56 degrees outside.
Any less it's just the fans and cold ambient air.
I will run my car for 3 to 4 minutes before
A pass to bring this number as low as I can
Before entering the water box.
If its below the 55 degrees ambient out.
It seems best to go down the track immediately after a pass
The car will be coolest from driving the return road back to the staging lane. View attachment 5005
These four passes are are back to back
The last is the quickest et.
The lowest I've seen this number is 43 degrees I wish I could have made my pass then.

wow my runs last night were almost identical

 

[Boris]

Dodge im sure had a fleet of engineers, a well prepped track, and picked the best spot to run the number.
They knew what was needed for the best times and 9.65 was it.

The Demon event in Houston was pretty close to it as they had the same track prep (maybe not same surface conditions) with mine shaft air. I think they had a head wind to contend with as well.

The number will be hard to reach because Dodge used every trick in the book to hit it.
Had Dodge just taken it to a track in the fall and ran a 9.90@136, they would have still gotten the "ban" letter but no one would be bitching about if the number was hit because a lot of people have ran that number or quicker.

But as people are finding out, once you get into the single digits, it gets harder to shave time

 

[DRAGRCR]

I don't think it would require satellite up links or anything. It's pretty simple to reasonably see that the tune is factory stock. There could be torque management items to check but easily done, and the timing table is the timing table. Doesn't matter how it's driven. There are a TON of trans tables and you're right the car does change those based on driving style, but that doesn't matter either and could be logged (I had to log mine to get the shift points to do what I wanted). Those trans tables mainly impact how soon or how late the car upshifts at part throttle, so not really relevant to 1/4 mile WOT runs.

The simplest way to check would be to simply download the tune from your car with HPT and do a compare against a known factory tune file which is easily obtained. The software will highlight any differences.

Having said that, are people questioning your car being stock tune? I don't see why they would be it seems to run what you'd expect and one other is noted in the 1/4 mile list as being right there on stock tires as well.

Yes, not this year, but last year in St Louis I was more than a tenth quicker then the others. Those folks ended up being good friends of mine and they actually pushed me in their Demon this year at Norwalk to make some passes with it. They wanted a "driver comparisin".
Then a few weeks ago in Houston I was more than a tenth quicker and my Friend out right accused me on FB. I offered in person since to go to a dealership with Him and the car and he did not have much to say. I ran 10.03 in eliminations and I think he ran 10.19. I like the Guy and consider him a friend but he has not found the right recipe.