M/T 305/45-17 vs Hoosier 28x10.5-17DBR Comparison?

[motorhead]

Means the video has no relevance for correct rim widths to the 17" sizes listed above. Nobody runs 13 and 14" widths with those tires.

Yeah, no. The number of considerations, characteristics and similarities between a "stretched" or "square" 15" drag radial and a "short sidewall" 17" drag radial are remarkably high. Look closer and more objectively.

 

[TNREDEYE]

Yeah, no. The number of considerations, characteristics and similarities between a "stretched" or "square" 15" drag radial and a "short sidewall" 17" drag radial are remarkably high. Look closer and more objectively.

LOL. So mh, that means you will be running your M&H's on a 13" or maybe even a 14" wide wheel?

I had an OL10.5 car in the mid '00's. We ran a 14" dbl beadlock w the "10.5x33-15" tire. The tire was actually 11" tread width and at 33" tall it had plenty of sidewall to allow for such stretch. They were a bit of a bitch to mount though, even w the dbl beadlock.
I can't even imagine trying to stretch these 305/45 MT's which is one of the tires this thread is about.

Seriously mh, I know a LOT about beadlocks, big tires and going fast and can't see your logic. Please enlighten those of us that are trying to 'look closer and more objectively' at this idea. Thank you in advance.

 

[MaxCarnage]

@TNREDEYE

For what it's worth I checked on the FB Hellcat forum about Hoosiers vs MT ET Rs. Seems like the majority goes with MT ET Rs. Those that do state the Hoosiers are slower. However, there are some that say the Hoosiers work well for them. One such guy is a Demon owner out of CA. Cut a 1.36 60ft with them (60ft isn't everything though). I think most stick to the MT ET Rs, because they are well proven to work well. Plus you can legally drive them on the street.

That said, I wouldn't mind trying out a set either. I'll be interested in hearing your info if you end up trying a set. I still have my MT ET Rs to burn threw before I'd consider a set.

 

[TNREDEYE]

@TNREDEYE

For what it's worth I checked on the FB Hellcat forum about Hoosiers vs MT ET Rs. Seems like the majority goes with MT ET Rs. Those that do state the Hoosiers are slower. However, there are some that say the Hoosiers work well for them. One such guy is a Demon owner out of CA. Cut a 1.36 60ft with them (60ft isn't everything though). I think most stick to the MT ET Rs, because they are well proven to work well. Plus you can legally drive them on the street.

That said, I wouldn't mind trying out a set either. I'll be interested in hearing your info if you end up trying a set. I still have my MT ET Rs to burn threw before I'd consider a set.

I think most will go w what the majority runs. It's completely understandable. It's my understanding that the specific Hoosier I'm looking at(18825DBR) is relatively new and as such doesn't have lots of time in the hands of Hellcat/Redeye/Demon guys.

Worth noting: there are 5 Demons that have made runs in the 9.50's using the stock tune. Two of them did it on the 18825DBR. So there's that..

I'll probably get a set and give them a go. Worst case I'm out a few hundred $.

 

[MaxCarnage]

I think most will go w what the majority runs. It's completely understandable. It's my understanding that the specific Hoosier I'm looking at(18825DBR) is relatively new and as such doesn't have lots of time in the hands of Hellcat/Redeye/Demon guys.

Worth noting: there are 5 Demons that have made runs in the 9.50's using the stock tune. Two of them did it on the 18825DBR. So there's that..

I'll probably get a set and give them a go. Worst case I'm out a few hundred $.

That's kind of where I'm at too. Give them a shot, I figure they can't be much worse than the MT ET R if they are. I'm going to try and keep all variables the same (not mod my car) so I can see if the tire actually makes a positive difference (Assuming only DA/ weather changes). They are about $50 a tire cheaper too, so that's nice. Won't likely be able to try them until this fall though. So I'll keep my ears open if you try them sooner.

My only concern is generally you run lower psi in a slick, so wouldn't that create more resistant when rolling, possibly making you slower?

 

[motorhead]

LOL. So mh, that means you will be running your M&H's on a 13" or maybe even a 14" wide wheel?

I had an OL10.5 car in the mid '00's. We ran a 14" dbl beadlock w the "10.5x33-15" tire. The tire was actually 11" tread width and at 33" tall it had plenty of sidewall to allow for such stretch. They were a bit of a bitch to mount though, even w the dbl beadlock.
I can't even imagine trying to stretch these 305/45 MT's which is one of the tires this thread is about.

Seriously mh, I know a LOT about beadlocks, big tires and going fast and can't see your logic. Please enlighten those of us that are trying to 'look closer and more objectively' at this idea. Thank you in advance.

Pardon the delayed response I was off doing superhero stuff for my day job. No, I will not be stretching my 325s on a wide wheel; but I can show what it runs like on a 9.5" wheel vs. an 11" wheel - measured section width being but part of the equation. But, a rather important limitation with the narrow/standard body Challengers (less so for Chargers and widebodies). In the same way there is/was little data on the 28" tires collected in a single location, the same level of appreciation for information about mounted tires and their characteristics is absent.

The beadlocks are being discussed in another thread so that can stay there; I am far more concerned about the misconceptions about the effects of tires on wheels and how they respond. The video pretty clearly explains how different tires respond to mounting configurations. The rim diameter is the least of the concern as opposed to sidewall construction and response; however for the sake of conversation let's look at it.

Two diameter sets of M/T ET Street Rs - 17 and 15 inch wheels, in 28 and 29-30 inch diameters respectively:

305/45R17 (28.1 - 17 / 2) = 5.55" sidewall height
315/50R17 (29.4 - 17 / 2) = 6.2" sidewall height

275/60R15 (28.2 - 15 / 2) = 6.6" sidewall height
315/60R15 (30.1 - 15 / 2) = 7.55" sidewall height

I think we can all agree that more sidewall is preferred than not enough. I mean why wouldn't we all run 15" conversions if it was easy/cost effective, right? But, they aren't and so we don't. With that in mind: what does right look like? That is relative to the application; but, in such high powered heavy cars it is usually defaulted to "as much as physically possible". Unfortunately it is also unnecessary for one reason: chassis set up.

The cars running on squared up/stretched section width 235s, 275s, and 315s as mentioned in the video have way more power and tuned suspensions than your typical bolt-on portly HC, and perform exponentially better despite not having "enough" or the "right" tire. Why? Because someone invested the time and tuned the suspension to the car, I am not talking about bolting on parts here (a diff brace and a set of trailing arms don't a race car make) thus making the most of the tire available and making the tires respond despite having less than compliant side walls square or stretched.

Has anyone here tuned the instant centre and anti-squat in an IRS car? 4 links, ladder bars, hell even leaf springs, sure. All day (the Drag Pack cars come with solid axles for a reason). But, the factory HC IRS? Nope. I bet most folks wouldn't even begin to know where to start, much less how to alter it. So, we ultimately attempt to mask the inherent traction built issues into the factory HC suspension with the biggest tires possible, inducing weight transfer, and locking out the suspension (as camber gain is not ideal). This covers it pretty good: https://www.svtperformance.com/threads/drag-racing-irs-in-here-need-tips.1070658/#post-15155552

To sum up, don't blame the tires - because those tenths and thousandths between tires is more likely a tuning issue (car and/or driver) than a fundamental failing in their construction, material, or design. They are all good options.

It's late and I am tired, but I hope that helps clarify or muddy the waters on the issue.

 

[motorhead]

Case in point here is a M&H 325/45R17 "squared" on a 17x11 wheel:

https://www.hellcatforum.org/threads/2019-poverty-pak-widebody-challenger.3128/post-64785

 

[Phast Hemi]

The Hoosier radial being referenced here is comparable to the Mt drag radial pro or pro bracket radial and not the radial pro. The radial pro is a DOT tire ( comparable to the DR2 Hoosier). The stuff they add to the tire to make it DOT compliant adds weight to the tire. That being said, the 275 radial pro is an excellent tire - especially if you run street car events that require a DOT tire. I have yet to find the limits of that tire moving 4500 lbs+ with repeatable1.35 60fts.