Hellraiser pulley install...FAIL?!!!

[16GoManGoHC2]

This is what happens if that bolt comes loose, hub spins on shaft and keeps knocking the bolt loose. If not too bad you can use loctite 680 on it, has to be real clean and grease free though.

 

[coolblue]

This is what happens if that bolt comes loose, hub spins on shaft and keeps knocking the bolt loose. If not too bad you can use loctite 680 on it, has to be real clean and grease free though. View attachment 24657 View attachment 24658 View attachment 24659

Thanks Mike. But if that's the case,( and it may be it) why would it be happening? Did it spin and gall when It was locked up with the Metco tool but just didn't break loose when I was using the electric gun? And then she broke free when I used the more power full air gun, but the damage was done already?
I actually thought of the Loctite bearing retainer also. Would that work? Or would that be a half ass fix? Does anyone fix these correctly? Can I buy just the snout assembly OEM from Mopar?
If there was more meat in there I would re-tap it for reverse threads and put in a bigger bolt.
How do I even get behind the coupler to pull it? I'm assuming the bearings are pressed on and I see they're peened into the housing. Very service friendly.
This sucks.

 

[06SRT10NR]

Thanks Mike. But if that's the case,( and it may be it) why would it be happening? Did it spin and gall when It was locked up with the Matco tool but just didn't break loose when I was using the electric gun? And then she broke free when I used the more power full air gun, but the damage was done already?
I actually thought of the Loctite bearing retainer also. Would that work? Or would that be a half ass fix? Does anyone fix these correctly? Can I buy just the snout assembly OEM from Mopar?
If there was more meat in there I would re-tap it for reverse threads and put in a bigger bolt.
How do I even get behind the coupler to pull it? I'm assuming the bearings are pressed on and I see they're peened into the housing. Very service friendly.
This sucks.

can;'t find my Jokerz link, but here's one for Bond:
https://www.jonbondperformance.com/...-twin-screw-supercharger-performance-rebuild/

 

[coolblue]

can;'t find my Jokerz link, but here's one for Bond:
https://www.jonbondperformance.com/...-twin-screw-supercharger-performance-rebuild/

Hey, thanks a bunch.

 

[06SRT10NR]

Hey, thanks a bunch.

hadn't visited his site in a while, looks like he's selling rebuild kits and parts now
https://www.jonbondperformance.com/product-category/sp/sp-dodge/sp-dodge-15-19-challenger-hellcat/

 

[coolblue]

hadn't visited his site in a while, looks like he's selling rebuild kits and parts now
https://www.jonbondperformance.com/product-category/sp/sp-dodge/sp-dodge-15-19-challenger-hellcat/

Hey, where the fu&* did you come from??? . Don't remember seeing that avatar, Thank you very much.

 

[06SRT10NR]

was at that other place starting summer '14, came over here with the mass exodus and swapped out a wile e coyote with help sign, for this one

 

[parttimer]

Jokerz did me real good on my rebuild. He offers just a rebuild as well as porting and rebuild:
https://jokerzperformance.com/product/ihi-oem-supercharger-rebuilds/

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

hadn't visited his site in a while, looks like he's selling rebuild kits and parts now
https://www.jonbondperformance.com/product-category/sp/sp-dodge/sp-dodge-15-19-challenger-hellcat/

Great to hear Bond is selling kits now to rebuild these blowers but read in the kit details, NO INSTRUCTIONS OR SPECIALTY TOOLS INCLUDED. Replacing the inlet side bearings is easy, rebuilding the drive end is a while another story, NOT easily done. It takes a special tool just to fit the These Teflon pressure seals to a shaft let alone get the precision angular contact bearing sets installed correctly and get the rotors back in through it all without ruining all the parts just purchased. Then if and when you tackle that you have to set the rotor relationship to one another and get it locked down without it moving. Bond won’t give you any tips or pointers on how to do it either, he’s, in his own words, he’s in business to repair and rebuild blowers not in business to teach others how to do what took him years to perfect, ie he’s not in business to put himself out of business. I’m surprised he’s even selling kits like this from talking to him about this 6 months ago.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Thanks Mike. But if that's the case,( and it may be it) why would it be happening? Did it spin and gall when It was locked up with the Matco tool but just didn't break loose when I was using the electric gun? And then she broke free when I used the more power full air gun, but the damage was done already?
I actually thought of the Loctite bearing retainer also. Would that work? Or would that be a half ass fix? Does anyone fix these correctly? Can I buy just the snout assembly OEM from Mopar?
If there was more meat in there I would re-tap it for reverse threads and put in a bigger bolt.
How do I even get behind the coupler to pull it? I'm assuming the bearings are pressed on and I see they're peened into the housing. Very service friendly.
This sucks.

The coupling hub bolt can get inadvertently loosened when removing the drive pulley. By holding the drive pin hub with the Metco tool in loosening the 17mm hex on the pulley the shaft inside the coupling hub can turn inside the hub and the bolt gets loosened and the clamp load lost that’s holding it in place, this happens even easier if a impact is used, it’s one of the reasons why they instruct to not use an impact. To get the hub off takes a special tool, I made a hub puller to pull both coupling hubs off. It’s pretty simple and works great. Once off then you can press the shaft out of the bearings towards the snout front. Then one has to dremel the bearing retention peened over tabs off and press the bearing out, from memory I believe it’s a 6203 there and pulley side a 6204 bearing. You can buy a knew shaft, JB and Jokers sells them. JB may even have the hub in stock as well.

 

[coolblue]

The coupling hub bolt can get inadvertently loosened when removing the drive pulley. By holding the drive pin hub with the Metco tool in loosening the 17mm hex on the pulley the shaft inside the coupling hub can turn inside the hub and the bolt gets loosened and the clamp load lost that’s holding it in place, this happens even easier if a impact is used, it’s one of the reasons why they instruct to not use an impact. To get the hub off takes a special tool, I made a hub puller to pull both coupling hubs off. It’s pretty simple and works great. Once off then you can press the shaft out of the bearings towards the snout front. Then one has to dremel the bearing retention peened over tabs off and press the bearing out, from memory I believe it’s a 6203 there and pulley side a 6204 bearing. You can buy a knew shaft, JB and Jokers sells them. JB may even have the hub in stock as well. View attachment 24692 View attachment 24693 View attachment 24694

Excellent info and visuals from you, as usual. Thanks. Very much appreciated.

 

[DGatzby]

Now I can appreciate why Dodge just replaced my SC under warranty when I suggested we just replace the OEM pulley after my car ate one earlier this year.

 

[Speedy!]

Taking a break getting ready for Challengerfest and popped on. What's the verdict?

 

[coolblue]

Taking a break getting ready for Challengerfest and popped on. What's the verdict?

Took it apart for the third time in three days. Called Jokerz. Had a conversation with Brett. He thinks the chatter(marbles) may be the coupling inserts (the plastic/nylon/ bushings). He thinks they're one and done usually. Some of mine came off with snout also, as yours. It may be a spun coupler/galled shaft but he doesn't think that's the chatter. Couldn't (Make that, didn't WANT to) take a chance of a fourth tear down so off went the snout to Jokerz to check it out and service. We'll see. Long story short, he's not enamored with the 2.7's so keep your 2.4. LOL.
Thanks for the check in Jay.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

If I recall correctly (and there's an excellent chance I'm wrong on this...), There exists the possibility that during your struggles to initially remove that bolt that you MAY have loosened the bolt on the backside of the snout???

Forgive me if I'm smoking Crack....

No way you are smoking crack!

 

[coolblue]

No way you are smoking crack!

OMG. DON'T BE THE MOM FIGURE LINDA!!. Hey BTW I ordered ALL of the supporting hardware for this install from HHP (Belt, Metco install tool' Hex tool Etc..)if that makes you feel any better. I'm the good son.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

OMG. DON'T BE THE MOM FIGURE LINDA!!. Hey BTW I ordered ALL of the supporting hardware for this install from HHP (Belt, Metco install tool' Hex tool Etc..)if that makes you feel any better. I'm the good son.

Nice! I'm glad HHP had what need

Can I please be the older sister?
I have 5 kids and can be a better sister?

Linda
And come on Bulls anologies.....because he is no nonsense !

 

[Speedy!]

More than one person has suggested the 2.4 was a bit better blower.

 

[coolblue]

More than one person has suggested the 2.4 was a bit better blower.

Actually he's not a fan of either one (Twin screws in general). Thinks factory tolerances should be tighter on 2.7. Believes you should stay 2.85 pulley or bigger for reliability on 2.7 unit.
These are my thoughts/words not his: If you look at the rotor length on the 2.7, it's substantially longer than a 2.4, like 1.2" at least. I know the Metco tool adapter was 1.4" to make up difference on the RE snout so maybe its 1.4". Now you have that much more mass and length spinning at speed (like 18000 to 22000 on the slower bigger one, the smaller of the two is faster). When the blower was designed, it was designed, period. Now Dodge wanted bigger and better. What's the cheapest route? Stretch the existing design. But then it's not a properly designed clean sheet of paper kind of thing. So I'm thinking more flex when stressed? Leading to bearing/rotor/wear problems and weird noises?
Best example is this. (I'm originally a Chevy guy so forgive me). When Chevy designed the original 396/427 BBC it was the perfect design unto itself. That motor will spin to 7000 plus RPM seamlessly and vibration free almost like a SBC and was internally balanced. Rod /stroke ratio excellent, crank pin overlap excellent. Then Chevy wanted more cubes and more torque and H.P. What'd they do? Stretch the existing design. Yep, the 454 makes more power. But all the race/street guys knew it was less reliable. Rod/main knocks real common. Thrown rods, real common. Going 7K+ repetitively forget it. Now you could get it to live (I did it) above 7K but you needed all the best reinforcement. 4 bolt mains, nitrided forged crank, big rods etc. And I'll tell you this; even with my 454 (which never failed) There was a vibration at @2500RPM when coming down off high RPM because with the now externally balanced crank and longer stroke there was more overlap and torsional flex and the machine shop could only build perfect balance at high or low rpm but not both.
So until they come out with titanium rotors and a more heavily reinforced T6 case, I'll keep my 2.7 pulley at 3.17 dia. and be happy with the power...I hope.

 

[Magnified]

This is what happens if that bolt comes loose, hub spins on shaft and keeps knocking the bolt loose. If not too bad you can use loctite 680 on it, has to be real clean and grease free though. View attachment 24657 View attachment 24658 View attachment 24659

Ouch