Will it be short lived?

[Magnified]

This subject is covered very well in paper written by Garrett Hardin entitled "Lifeboat Ethics". It was written back in the '70's when being earth conscious was coming into it's own. I had to read this and write my own paper on it in one of my college classes. I firmly believe that it should be required reading in high school.

https://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_lifeboat_ethics_case_against_helping_poor.html

We should address this in our own country with the out of control welfare system. Planning the size of your family based upon the amount of free money you get from Uncle Sugar is not a successful life plan. And those supplying said "free money" should no longer have to contribute to a system with no checks and balances, or we should have a say in how those programs are run, and what the requirements are to take advantage of them. I'd like to see it start with mandatory birth control.
Those programs were never meant to plan a life around, they were to help people who legitimately fell on hard times through no fault of their own.

There will always be those who abuse the systems; I think we need more reliable data on these types of cases. In my career I have dealt with a number of issues dealing with these types of things I have not seen evidence of more than 5% abuse. It may be out there, and I just did not see it. I would push for more stringent regulation of the programs personally - but then, as a society, we have to decide what the penalty is for those who abuse the system. I don't think we can just kill folks (we can't even kill murderers and such). So what, put them in jail? Jails are now a catch all for things like underfunded mental health systems, so we would add taxpayer supported imprisonment for welfare fraud? We might end up spending more on the people when they're in prison than we do on the fraud. And then, what about the kids? They were not responsible for how their parents lived their lives. Foster homes for all of them? Foster homes are often worse even than jails for pointing kids to socially unacceptable behavior. Deportation? To where? The vast majority are citizens under the most ancient standard we have. How is that justified?

So then what? Universal contraception, applying to the government for authorization to have children, using an income standard? Who sets the standard? Contraception only for the poor (again, what standards to use?). And what happens if they have children anyway? Forced abortions? And the right to have children is a fundamental right enshrined in most societies.

To me, the disconnect is two things. Broken families, and broken economy. F-ed up children become f-ed up adults (generally) and they perpetuate that broken cycle. Perhaps we should work more at intervention on a family level (religion, social programs, police programs, what - I don't know the best formulation, or even if we can do it) but we have to break the cycle. It's easy for many of us who come from stable, successful homes and have seen that all our lives and take it as the norm. Secondly, even if the family breaks down, if there are jobs (in manufacturing, textiles, and the like) that allow the bulk of the population to have middle class lives even without a college education, most people will work those jobs and keep their noses clean. But if there are not jobs open to them (because they've been moved over seas) then those families are mangled. And all those jobs didn't get done away by the government - companies will go where they money is. If they can cut costs 40% by buying and manufacturing over seas, they will do it (and you won't see the prices drop 40% either - I know bc I've helped do this). As Ben Franklin said, companies have no country or loyalty.

lol, just rambling. But it easy to point at a thing and say its a problem but much different to be able to solve it in the real world.

 

[MiHiHemi]

I have said this over and over and people have attacked me. If you want to save our planet lower the population. There are too many of us there should not be 8 billion humans on earth. 1 or 2 billion is too many. It is almost time for a reset. Either war or virus but we need something to stop us spreading. We are the virus.

When I was a kid back in the 70’s, all the talk was zero population. 2 children per couple. What happened to that school of thought...oh wait, I’ll soon be on Social Security so keep spitting out those kids to hit the work force and fund my retirement

 

[Stl376]

im not as old as some of you fellas and live in a pretty red state... Seems like its always the "Dems are going to take away our guns, cars and raise our taxes". Nothing ever changes here.

 

[1971demon]

Ever read Rainbow Six?

Man...you guys are startin to scare me..Ya mean we gotta get rid of 5 billion people......I promise I'll be good....don't put me out with the trash...

 

[Markp]

Man...you guys are startin to scare me..Ya mean we gotta get rid of 5 billion people......I promise I'll be good....don't put me out with the trash...

 

[1971demon]

View attachment 23050

I guess culling the population..through any means...just kinda scares me...

 

[Markp]

I guess culling the population..through any means...just kinda scares me...

Simple start would be you have a kid you pay for it. Government gives you nothing. Next best thing would be something like China did which is one child per family you want more you better be able to pay more. After that it would be something to the effect of eugenics. It is your right to have children only if you can keep them alive and raise them without help from society. We do this for dogs and cats but not for humans.

Some people need to be spayed our neutered. Tell me I am wrong?

 

[1971demon]

Simple start would be you have a kid you pay for it. Government gives you nothing. Next best thing would be something like China did which is one child per family you want more you better be able to pay more. After that it would be something to the effect of eugenics. It is your right to have children only if you can keep them alive and raise them without help from society. We do this for dogs and cats but not for humans.

Conceptually ..points made have merit ...the formula does not take into account...someone with a family of say two offspring who through no fault of his own no longer has the ability to support that family...then the issue of unplanned pregnancies...it would seem the only way the concept would work..is sterilization at birth...then parenting by permit...I'm not comfortable with that type of governmental intrusion in my life..or anybody else's life...you realize that very initiative..was part of the plan for the world by Nazi Germany...

 

[Markp]

Conceptually ..points made have merit ...the formula does not take into account...someone with a family of say two offspring who through no fault of his own no longer has the ability to support that family...then the issue of unplanned pregnancies...it would seem the only way the concept would work..is sterilization at birth...then parenting by permit...I'm not comfortable with that type of governmental intrusion in my life..or anybody else's life...you realize that very initiative..was part of the plan for the world by Nazi Germany...

In nature the strong and intelligent survive.

In your first example I do not think that there would be enough of those cases to really effect anything. In those cases I am sure people would help out.

Unplanned pregnancies are your own fault. If your too stupid to use condoms or birth control maybe you should not have children. Plus there is abortion. So that example we can deal with.

Your third example I would go with Chris Langans idea of using dysgenics. At a certain age lets say 10 for example children would be tested in IQ, genetic mutations and diseases. We would then sterilize them at that time once we agree on the stipulations.

Nazi's science got us to the moon. Don't think for one minute it was American scientists please look up operation paperclip. Yes the Nazi's were horrible but that does not mean all there ideas were incorrect. I would not disregard something just because it can be connected to Nazi Germany. I do not care if your black, white or a jew. If your smart and or have good genetics, can provide for and raise your family you can breed. That is the way it has been for millions of years. All of a sudden in the past few hundred years we have steered away from this and look how screwed up we are.

 

[Markp]

In nature the strong and intelligent survive.

In your first example I do not think that there would be enough of those cases to really effect anything. In those cases I am sure people would help out.

Unplanned pregnancies are your own fault. If your too stupid to use condoms or birth control maybe you should not have children. Plus there is abortion. So that example we can deal with.

Your third example I would go with Chris Langans idea of using dysgenics. At a certain age lets say 10 for example children would be tested in IQ, genetic mutations and diseases. We would then sterilize them at that time once we agree on the stipulations.

Nazi's science got us to the moon. Don't think for one minute it was American scientists please look up operation paperclip. Yes the Nazi's were horrible but that does not mean all there ideas were incorrect. I would not disregard something just because it can be connected to Nazi Germany. I do not care if your black, white or a jew. If your smart and or have good genetics, can provide for and raise your family you can breed. That is the way it has been for millions of years. All of a sudden in the past few hundred years we have steered away from this and look how screwed up we are.

Yes I quoted myself

I truly believe that after just a few generations of doing this we would cut our population by more then half. Humans would be more intelligent and healthier. We can't keep trying to fight natural selection or we will become dumber and weaker as a species.

 

[Markp]

Something needs to be done. The incentives to live off "the system" need to be taken away. I'm not talking about people who lose their jobs or fall on hard times due to no fault of their own.
I'm talking about the teenage girls getting pregnant and planning a life on welfare because their mother and grandmother taught them how to game the system.

I see it all the time in my area.....the people who are in the grocery store buying ribeye steak and other expensive foods, and out comes the Independence (EBT) card to pay for it all. If you're getting tax dollars to feed yourself, then you can have round steak. If you're taking tax dollars to feed yourself, then you get the generic brands of things, not the name brand. If you're taking tax dollars to feed yourself, then you don't get ice cream, or snaky cakes, or candy, you get a subsistence living because that's what you need. If you want better food, and ice cream, and candy, and Coca Cola, then go get a job, just like I have to and provide for yourself.

And don't even get me started on the people I see buying cigarettes with their EBT card. If you're on welfare, you can't afford to be smoking, especially not if I'm paying for it. Let alone all the health problems that come from it.

If you actually think about my post we already do dysgenics but with athletes. If your poor and or dumb as long as you can throw a football or put a ball in a basket you get free schooling and money. Also if your poor but extremely intelligent you can get a scholarship and go to a great school and make money. Both are part of today's society's natural selection but the problem is we don't stop the rest from having babies...we pay them like they deserve it.

 

[1971demon]

In nature the strong and intelligent survive.

In your first example I do not think that there would be enough of those cases to really effect anything. In those cases I am sure people would help out.

Unplanned pregnancies are your own fault. If your too stupid to use condoms or birth control maybe you should not have children. Plus there is abortion. So that example we can deal with.

Your third example I would go with Chris Langans idea of using dysgenics. At a certain age lets say 10 for example children would be tested in IQ, genetic mutations and diseases. We would then sterilize them at that time once we agree on the stipulations.

Nazi's science got us to the moon. Don't think for one minute it was American scientists please look up operation paperclip. Yes the Nazi's were horrible but that does not mean all there ideas were incorrect. I would not disregard something just because it can be connected to Nazi Germany. I do not care if your black, white or a jew. If your smart and or have good genetics, can provide for and raise your family you can breed. That is the way it has been for millions of years. All of a sudden in the past few hundred years we have steered away from this and look how screwed up we are.

In nature the strong and intelligent survive.

In your first example I do not think that there would be enough of those cases to really effect anything. In those cases I am sure people would help out.

Unplanned pregnancies are your own fault. If your too stupid to use condoms or birth control maybe you should not have children. Plus there is abortion. So that example we can deal with.

Your third example I would go with Chris Langans idea of using dysgenics. At a certain age lets say 10 for example children would be tested in IQ, genetic mutations and diseases. We would then sterilize them at that time once we agree on the stipulations.

Nazi's science got us to the moon. Don't think for one minute it was American scientists please look up operation paperclip. Yes the Nazi's were horrible but that does not mean all there ideas were incorrect. I would not disregard something just because it can be connected to Nazi Germany. I do not care if your black, white or a jew. If your smart and or have good genetics, can provide for and raise your family you can breed. That is the way it has been for millions of years. All of a sudden in the past few hundred years we have steered away from this and look how screwed up we are.

Yikes Markie...well not sure were holdin hands on this one...I'm not a fan of forced sterilization..implementation by governmental oversight...(what you really mean is new world order)...I'll pass...and I'm also not a fan of abortion..(dont care what side of the issue anybody's on)..I dont condone it..just my opinion..nothing more..and as far as our trips to the moon...has it made your quality of life better??..hasn't done a thing for me...I will give you this as far as Nazi Germany's contribution to mankind...they gave us a great subcompact car...and as far as the direction of mankind the past few hundred years....look around you..mankind has made more strides in those years you allude to...than at any other time in his existence..I agree..the wheels have come off..I just dont think those are the answers...now lets argue bout something far far more important...bet my mothers sauce n meatballs are better than your moms..

 

[1971demon]

Something needs to be done. The incentives to live off "the system" need to be taken away. I'm not talking about people who lose their jobs or fall on hard times due to no fault of their own.
I'm talking about the teenage girls getting pregnant and planning a life on welfare because their mother and grandmother taught them how to game the system.

I see it all the time in my area.....the people who are in the grocery store buying ribeye steak and other expensive foods, and out comes the Independence (EBT) card to pay for it all. If you're getting tax dollars to feed yourself, then you can have round steak. If you're taking tax dollars to feed yourself, then you get the generic brands of things, not the name brand. If you're taking tax dollars to feed yourself, then you don't get ice cream, or snaky cakes, or candy, you get a subsistence living because that's what you need. If you want better food, and ice cream, and candy, and Coca Cola, then go get a job, just like I have to and provide for yourself.

And don't even get me started on the people I see buying cigarettes with their EBT card. If you're on welfare, you can't afford to be smoking, especially not if I'm paying for it. Let alone all the health problems that come from it.

No question something needs to be done...I see it first hand..every day..( my business is in the inner city)...We are into this almost 3.5 generations...It ramped up as a result of the Johnson administration,,and affirmative action..I am hard pressed to believe that this is what Dr. martin Luther King envisioned for his people...He didn't want a chicken in every pot for people of color...but the right for those people to raise chickens if they so choose...his message has been lost...But your right..we have given them every incentive to become non productutive members of society..and totally dependent on social programs...what do you expect...It HAS to change...we didn't get here overnight...its been over 60 years...but the system..(OUR POLITICIANS)..have to lead the charge...until such time...nothing changes

 

[1971demon]

Look...everyone knows that mankind has made these giant leaps in the last few hundred years due to help from the ancient aliens....

View attachment 23056

Wow...and here all along I thought they just brought us Tacos...and those sundaes with peanuts on them...

 

[1971demon]

great......i just got off of work...and it's time to go to bed....and now you made me hungry.....

Wtf...its ok for you to send pic's..that make me abuse myself though eh?

 

[Magnified]

View attachment 23050

If you look at the overall numbers, more people are alive today than have lived, total, through out all the rest of human history.

 

[1971demon]

If you look at the overall numbers, more people are alive today than have lived, total, through out all the rest of human history.

And we can walk West from Markies summer home for a month...and never see another Human being..Its a big planet..with alot of resources ...and a vast majority of the population survives with far less demand on its natural resources then us privileged elitist

 

[Hellcat Cuda]

OMG!!! I leave for the day and come back to find that I not only worry about Biden / Harris pressuring me to get rid of my Red Eye, but must also worry about those here who, should THEY win the election, will want to neuter me!!!

 

[Boris]

While I'm close to 70 now, I finally have what I consider to be the ultimate new Mopar. It's all I will ever need in a late model muscle car. However, is anyone else concerned with where Biden / Harris would try to take things if they get in the office?

Specifically, I'm concerned with them really pushing electric vehicles to the point of finding ways to get cars like ours off the road. High road taxes; high registration taxes; high cost of fuel (as if fuel isn't already too expensive here in NorCal.

I remember having my '70 440-6 Challenger back when the first gas crisis hit. I was young and not making a lot of money. I literally bought a clean old '52 Morris Minor to drive to work and as much as I resisted, finally had to sell the Challenger. There was the "perfect storm" between high cost of fuel along with insurance costs going sky high.

I'm concerned they would find a way to make it more expensive to own these cars, which would take all the enjoyment out of owning / driving it. Am I catastrophizing the situation? I know who I'll be voting for, but it is all left wing liberals around here where I live. I need to visit other parts of the country where maybe I wouldn't feel so alone.

Gas is cheap and plentiful. Even with all the new fking taxes in IL, its still only 2.2x for 87 and under 3 for 93. E85 is 2!
If they want gas powered cars to go away, they need to tax the shit out of it. Im talking $5+ gallon of gas. And even then, you probably still not get people to buy EVs.

The infrastructure just isn't there for many American's to buy only electric cars. I'll get one someday because i like some things about them but too expensive right now. And none of the styling is interesting either.

And if Biden does win, he can't just legislate the ICE away. He will kill the entire automotive industry. Good luck surviving that one.

 

[1971demon]

OMG!!! I leave for the day and come back to find that I not only worry about Biden / Harris pressuring me to get rid of my Red Eye, but must also worry about those here who, should THEY win the election, will want to neuter me!!!

Knives are being sharpened as we speak...