Tire rotating on wheel

[MaxCarnage]

7 runs today...

Looks like about the same amount I was seeing. I've been chewing on which beadlocks to buy. Likely I'll want front/rear set (not running skinnies just yet).

So far I'm thinking:

Forgestar D5s 17x10 Beadlock 25.9lbs/18x5 front runners 19lbs

or

Billet Specialties Winlites 17x10 Beadlock 22.4lbs/18x5 front runners 14lbs

The Winlites are lighter, but are twice the cost as the D5s. Not sure if they are twice the wheel! Total weight difference between the two sets is 17lbs (7lbs rear/10lbs front). Assuming the data from Billet Specialties and Forgestar are correct.

 

[Mean Cat]

I just got a email back from EZ Tire Beads & they said that the beads are not for Racing applications ??...WTH, I know some guys here have said they use them. So I still didn't get a answer for how much to use in my DR's. Not sure if I should use the beads now or not ?

 

[Marc W]

Looks like about the same amount I was seeing. I've been chewing on which beadlocks to buy. Likely I'll want front/rear set (not running skinnies just yet).

So far I'm thinking:

Forgestar D5s 17x10 Beadlock 25.9lbs/18x5 front runners 19lbs

or

Billet Specialties Winlites 17x10 Beadlock 22.4lbs/18x5 front runners 14lbs

The Winlites are lighter, but are twice the cost as the D5s. Not sure if they are twice the wheel! Total weight difference between the two sets is 17lbs (7lbs rear/10lbs front). Assuming the data from Billet Specialties and Forgestar are correct.

Yeah the BS (like Welds) are pricey. Not as much as Bogarts, but still!! I have the Winlites and they are rediculously light. One thing I can say is when you hold one, you see where the money went. They are spectacular CNC billet aluminum art.

 

[TNREDEYE]

Looks like about the same amount I was seeing. I've been chewing on which beadlocks to buy. Likely I'll want front/rear set (not running skinnies just yet).

So far I'm thinking:

Forgestar D5s 17x10 Beadlock 25.9lbs/18x5 front runners 19lbs

or

Billet Specialties Winlites 17x10 Beadlock 22.4lbs/18x5 front runners 14lbs

The Winlites are lighter, but are twice the cost as the D5s. Not sure if they are twice the wheel! Total weight difference between the two sets is 17lbs (7lbs rear/10lbs front). Assuming the data from Billet Specialties and Forgestar are correct.

I have the D5's on the front of my car and Weld S71's on the rear. All powder coated matte black. They match really good considering they aren't the same brand. Neither are particularly light when compared to the Win Lite. MarcW is correct in that the Win Lites are a waayy nicer quality wheel. They are also as light as advertised. My only knock on them is that lots of these cars that you'll see at a drag strip have the Win Lite on them and they sort of all start to look alike after a while.

Having said all that I'm still considering the Win Lites(along w the Hoosier 28x10.5R17) as my 'drag only' setup strictly because of the weight.

 

[motorhead]

I just got a email back from EZ Tire Beads & they said that the beads are not for Racing applications ??...WTH, I know some guys here have said they use them. So I still didn't get a answer for how much to use in my DR's. Not sure if I should use the beads now or not ?

That's just a liability thing.

Here's a calculator: https://www.counteractbalancing.com/applications/

More applications: http://innovativebalancing.com/

Some FAQs: https://checkeredflagtirebalancebeads.com/questions-and-answers/ doesn't say anything about absolute speed limitations on maintaining balance.

Bike guys say they run out of balance at 100mph: https://www.mybikeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22119
Obviously the sensations are going to be worse with the wheel/tire right under your butt and directly connected to your hands.

EDIT: Because we are all visual learners:

 

[PaVaSteeler]

That's just a liability thing.

Here's a calculator: https://www.counteractbalancing.com/applications/

More applications: http://innovativebalancing.com/

Some FAQs: https://checkeredflagtirebalancebeads.com/questions-and-answers/ doesn't say anything about absolute speed limitations on maintaining balance.

Bike guys say they run out of balance at 100mph: https://www.mybikeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22119
Obviously the sensations are going to be worse with the wheel/tire right under your butt and directly connected to your hands.

EDIT: Because we are all visual learners:

Thanks for all the info, but none of the links apply to cars; they're all off road, trucks or motorcycles.

That said, I selected "light truck", "285/50" on the counterbalancing link, and it said 4oz. I'm not sure if I'm willing to play with this stuff on the drag strip without knowing how many oz to use. I'm guessing 4-6 oz, but would like to hear from those who use them on the strip the amount they're using.

 

[motorhead]

Thanks for all the info, but none of the links apply to cars; they're all off road, trucks or motorcycles.

That said, I selected "light truck", "285/50" on the counterbalancing link, and it said 4oz. I'm not sure if I'm willing to play with this stuff on the drag strip without knowing how many oz to use. I'm guessing 4-6 oz, but would like to hear from those who use them on the strip the amount they're using.

Do Top Fuel and Pro Stock cars balance their wheels? If not, well they carry a lot more risk than you ever will. But, the choice is yours.

That being said in my portfolio as a Safety Officer is Road and Vehicle Safety, and that includes hazardous occurence investigations, and nothing about balance beads relative to my training and experience is going to be problematic - as a slightly out of balance wheel (properly torqued) isn't going to send your car into orbit or the wall. Obviously since so many folks are already making run after run as the tires rotate on the wheels.

 

[Mean Cat]

That's just a liability thing.

Here's a calculator: https://www.counteractbalancing.com/applications/

More applications: http://innovativebalancing.com/

Some FAQs: https://checkeredflagtirebalancebeads.com/questions-and-answers/ doesn't say anything about absolute speed limitations on maintaining balance.

Bike guys say they run out of balance at 100mph: https://www.mybikeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22119
Obviously the sensations are going to be worse with the wheel/tire right under your butt and directly connected to your hands.

EDIT: Because we are all visual learners:

Thanks for info , but on the calculator it won't do a 315/50/17 tire & when I called they don't answer so that's why I emailed & after 3 days they said not for racing apps.

On the Dyna beads a guy on a M/C forum said over 100 mph they weren't as effective.
I just called that company & left a call back message , we'll see how long that takes ?

 

[Mean Cat]

Thanks for all the info, but none of the links apply to cars; they're all off road, trucks or motorcycles.

That said, I selected "light truck", "285/50" on the counterbalancing link, and it said 4oz. I'm not sure if I'm willing to play with this stuff on the drag strip without knowing how many oz to use. I'm guessing 4-6 oz, but would like to hear from those who use them on the strip the amount they're using.

I agree , all of the different bead companies just show for big rigs , rock crawlers & m/c's.
And on 1 of the bead co. web site it said they won't work on low air pressure , so when at the track we lower our tire pressure , not sure if that's gonna be good ?

 

[Marc W]

Why the hell would a rock crawler want to balance their tires? To give them a nice vibration free ride 😂. Big rigs are so heavy that a out of balance tire isn’t even going to be felt. Maybe make those used cheap ass retreads last longer before they unravel and leave chunks of rubber all over the road? One of the shop Hellcats went 170mph on the half mile using 315/50-17 M/T-R’s with beads. He said it was good.

 

[DRAGRCR]

I have the D5's on the front of my car and Weld S71's on the rear. All powder coated matte black. They match really good considering they aren't the same brand. Neither are particularly light when compared to the Win Lite. MarcW is correct in that the Win Lites are a waayy nicer quality wheel. They are also as light as advertised. My only knock on them is that lots of these cars that you'll see at a drag strip have the Win Lite on them and they sort of all start to look alike after a while.

Having said all that I'm still considering the Win Lites(along w the Hoosier 28x10.5R17) as my 'drag only' setup strictly because of the weight.

In my experience the Welds have better quality control. For instance the back of a weld wheel (the hub face) is much nicer and it seems to be hard annodized. I have had Win lites come on 2 separate orders where there was similar damage to the wheel right out of the box. Also the 17X10 win lites have no chanfer at the back to accept any kind of hub centric ring. I have had to hand file a chamfer to install rings.

 

[motorhead]

Thanks for info , but on the calculator it won't do a 315/50/17 tire & when I called they don't answer so that's why I emailed & after 3 days they said not for racing apps.

On the Dyna beads a guy on a M/C forum said over 100 mph they weren't as effective.
I just called that company & left a call back message , we'll see how long that takes ?

Then look at the measured/mounted dimensions (diameter and section width) of the tire and find a comparable in a truck tire.

 

[Mean Cat]

Why the hell would a rock crawler want to balance their tires? To give them a nice vibration free ride 😂. Big rigs are so heavy that a out of balance tire isn’t even going to be felt. Maybe make those used cheap ass retreads last longer before they unravel and leave chunks of rubber all over the road? One of the shop Hellcats went 170mph on the half mile using 315/50-17 M/T-R’s with beads. He said it was good.

I would like to know how many oz's of beads he uses in that tire.

Just got a call back from Dyna Beads co. & he said same as other co. that not used for cars or racing where you lower tire pressure.

 

[Marc W]

I would like to know how many oz's of beads he uses in that tire.

Just got a call back from Dyna Beads co. & he said same as other co. that not used for cars or racing where you lower tire pressure.

He wasn’t running low tire pressure. I’ll guess at 25 to 30 lbs for the half. It wasn’t me so I don’t know but I’m sure he wasn’t at a drag pressure like -20 lbs. I know he said they felt good on the street and no issues at that speed. Probably where you have a big flat footprint like on a low pressure drag tire when coming off the line that could disrupt the centrifugal placement of the beads. I can see where they would work better on a tire that is at a more consistent speed rather than one rapidly accelerating.

 

[TNREDEYE]

While we're on the topic of tires spinning on wheels and we clearly have a bit of thread drift going on I have a question:

What's with the single bead lock wheels? Torsional load clearly gets sent to both the outside bead as well as the inside bead. If we 'need' the bead lock to hold the outside from moving then why don't we need it for the inside?
Is there some clearance issue that precludes the use of a bead lock on the inside on our cars perhaps?

 

[DRAGRCR]

While we're on the topic of tires spinning on wheels and we clearly have a bit of thread drift going on I have a question:

What's with the single bead lock wheels? Torsional load clearly gets sent to both the outside bead as well as the inside bead. If we 'need' the bead lock to hold the outside from moving then why don't we need it for the inside?
Is there some clearance issue that precludes the use of a bead lock on the inside on our cars perhaps?

Yes, the rear bead lock ring will not go over the stock brakes. So you end up with a single bead lock. Just so you know MT does not allow you to use a single bead lock with their tires. It's right on the web site in their tech info.

 

[motorhead]

Just so you know MT does not allow you to use a single bead lock with their tires. It's right on the web site in their tech info.

Almost like it is proven dangerous.

 

[DRAGRCR]

Almost like it is proven dangerous.

Almost like improperly torqued lug nuts. How often do you see someone pull a mag shank lug nut apart from over torquing or a wheel come off from shearing all 5 studs off on the hit. Rarely. But is DOES happen. I am inclined to trust the balance bead manufacturers or the tire manufacturer. Another one is screwing radials with rim screws. Do people get away with it. ALL the time. But there is a reason to not do it. Just hope you do not find out....

 

[Marc W]

I’m always checking all bolts (including the bead lock bolts). I understand the potential for having one side of the wheel locked and the other not. I am going to mark the inside of the wheel and tire and keep an eye on it to see if any of that is goin on. If I see any movement then we’ll address it.

 

[motorhead]

Almost like improperly torqued lug nuts. How often do you see someone pull a mag shank lug nut apart from over torquing or a wheel come off from shearing all 5 studs off on the hit. Rarely. But is DOES happen. I am inclined to trust the balance bead manufacturers or the tire manufacturer. Another one is screwing radials with rim screws. Do people get away with it. ALL the time. But there is a reason to not do it. Just hope you do not find out....

I’m always checking all bolts (including the bead lock bolts). I understand the potential for having one side of the wheel locked and the other not. I am going to mark the inside of the wheel and tire and keep an eye on it to see if any of that is goin on. If I see any movement then we’ll address it.

Right, it is about taking measured risk. Which is why assuming a few ounces of bead inside a tire is safety risk, which it isn't. An unbalanced slick with an inner tube is going to have more potential driveline vibrations than some self-balancing beads.