DRAGRCR RED EYES

[hellno]

@DRAGRCR & @hellno , Would it have anything to do with Trans. temp. , maybe not up to temp, being cooled down at the track between passes ?... is it only happening when racing or even on the street ?

I dout it I’ve ran mine as low as 125 and as high as 210 and its shifts

 

[DRAGRCR]

X

 

[hellno]

Trust me my Trans was definately warmed up yesterday. Besides I have made a completely stone cold pass in my Demon just to see what would happen and the ambient was like 50-55 deg outside. And it shifted fine. It was quite a bit slower but it shifted fine. Converter locks fine on the street. The Tires do not grab good enough to slip the TCC.

Also, I was talking to a Friend and I think I answered my own question. Of course they would NEVER allow the transmission to shift to a higher gear at WOT if the Converter was in the process of locking up. So that is likely a permissive that is programmed into the Calibration.

@Speedy! @hellno

If that was true then why would not all demons have that issue
Also the lock converter comes on around about 43 to 4500 RPM but I doubt it’s a converter clutch problem that you’re having but I hope you get it figured out

 

[DRAGRCR]

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[hellno]

@hellno @Speedy! I found out I was wrong about some things. The car WILL shift before the converter fully locks. I have found that my car is actually achieving full lock during the shift to second gear. I have ONE log that was shared with me from a 19 RedEye and it also does not lock until after it is shifting to second just like my car and that car does not hiccup. Not even close.

Ok, here is the bad news. My car is flat out just not commanding the 1-2 shift early enough. Whatever it is using to decide when to command the shift is either programmed wrong, or the program is corrupt, or a sensor is reading false information etc. NOTHING I have done to this car is out of the ordinary or different from what I have done to my cars in the past. I can give you many examples and none have caused a hiccup.

Facts: The Log that was shared with me commands the 1-2 shift at 5365 RPM and it completes the shift at 5901 RPM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .my car commands the 1-2 shift at 5954 RPM and it completes the shift at 6635 RPM after the throttle closes.

So the shared file is from a 2.62 car that is a little heavier but with a shorter tire. So overall things are going to be happening a little slower than my car. But THAT car is working like it should and is typical for a Hellcat. It is shifting early to second gear. Now he could do some weight reduction and slam some 3.09's in the car and not have any problems.

Yours is stock trans with or without trans tuning ???

 

[Speedy!]

Ron, resend me your stock tune. The copy I have doesn't include TCM. I did look at a 2019 Redeye and it's commanding 1-2 shift at 1200 rpm OSS in the tune. That's right at 5650 engine RPM. I have a track log from a 2019 and it commands the 1-2 shift at 5350 and completes it at 5900 which is to be expected at WOT in 1st.

I can see if yours is commanding a higher 1-2 shift. Maybe Jim tried to do you a favor and missed something LOL.

 

[DRAGRCR]

X

 

[Hpindy]

I have been at the track many times with a friend with a 2019 redeye and it has shifted perfect every single time . I even made a pass in the car . I stood at the line and listened to the car go and it has always shifted perfect. Ron maybe you have corrupt Tcm calibration or a defective solenoid or something. I have not heard this from any other car .

Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[DRAGRCR]

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[Speedy!]

Ron, I got your email. Comparing your 2020 tune with a 2019 RE I see a few things that have changed. There is a scenario in the TCM calibration that calls for a 6,325 RPM shift on the 1-2. I didn't go through all 100ish trans tables, but there's a big difference in your 2020 vs the 2019 at a quick check in that it maps a shift pattern to this 6325 RPM 1-2 where the 2019 does not.

I see this 6325 rpm shift point for 1-2 called in a couple scenarios, one of which is plain o'l D if it maps the same as my 2016 in terms of aggression tables. Aggression 5 is the table specifically. Aggression 10, 15, and 20 also get close to this same RPM. It looks like Aggression 5 and 10 are the ones used a lot in the trans cal based on driver type and Aggression 10 has a 6175 RPM shift limit as a comparison.

Wouldn't take much to hit a rev limit at that 6325 RPM in 1st I think with cutoff being at 6500. You can add the PID "shift ID" to your log to see which one it's using. The side effect to this is the log will be glitchy. For some reason the deeper trans PIDs give HPT some problems. RPMs will be sluggish in the log, etc.

 

[Phast Hemi]

I will be specific. It commands or starts converter lockup at 4350 RPM and then it never completes lockup until the computer dumps the power past the 6630 RPM peak / overrev when it gets back down to 5900 rpm.

How are you making power at 6630 rpm when FCO on the stock cal is at 6500?

 

[DRAGRCR]

X

 

[Hpindy]

You definitely have something going on . You are hitting the rev limit ( the max limit ) you are over shooting the shift point . There are a few differences in the trans tune over a 2019 redeye .
Couple of questions .

1- are you putting it in D when you run or are you putting it manual mode and letting it shift?

2- have you tried sport mode rather then track mode?

Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[coolblue]

Ron, I got your email. Comparing your 2020 tune with a 2019 RE I see a few things that have changed. There is a scenario in the TCM calibration that calls for a 6,325 RPM shift on the 1-2. I didn't go through all 100ish trans tables, but there's a big difference in your 2020 vs the 2019 at a quick check in that it maps a shift pattern to this 6325 RPM 1-2 where the 2019 does not.

I see this 6325 rpm shift point for 1-2 called in a couple scenarios, one of which is plain o'l D if it maps the same as my 2016 in terms of aggression tables. Aggression 5 is the table specifically. Aggression 10, 15, and 20 also get close to this same RPM. It looks like Aggression 5 and 10 are the ones used a lot in the trans cal based on driver type and Aggression 10 has a 6175 RPM shift limit as a comparison.

Wouldn't take much to hit a rev limit at that 6325 RPM in 1st I think with cutoff being at 6500. You can add the PID "shift ID" to your log to see which one it's using. The side effect to this is the log will be glitchy. For some reason the deeper trans PIDs give HPT some problems. RPMs will be sluggish in the log, etc.

Read the post a few times and am not even 100% on all of it (aggression tables??, level 5, 10, 15) but I get the gist of most of it, just not as computer savvy as many on here. But what I'm really surprised at is the differences in TCM in apples to apples cars except the year.
Maybe you were right about "the friend" doing a few changes and winding up doing more harm than good. I can't see how Ron's car would an anomaly out of all the RE's produced. When they make cars ECM's/TCM's a tune-is a tune-is a tune, correct? Meening it's one master program for all mass produced, they don't individually tune them correct? And why would FCA spend the time and money on R and D to make a change on the same exact car? Very weird to me. Great info BTW.

 

[EricG]

Y

1- are you putting it in D when you run or are you putting it manual mode and letting it shift?

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The car will not upshift in M, but it will in D when you use the paddles, I assume that's what you are asking? I drive my car around like that a lot(in D using the paddles) and I get these hesitated shifts. I don;t know for sure, but I think Ron just races in D with the car in track mode and doesn't use the paddles.

 

[Hpindy]

The car will not upshift in M, but it will in D when you use the paddles, I assume that's what you are asking? I drive my car around like that a lot(in D using the paddles) and I get these hesitated shifts. I don;t know for sure, but I think Ron just races in D with the car in track mode and doesn't use the paddles.

Sorry yes that's what I ment . Manual shifting or let it shift it's self .

Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[Speedy!]

Read the post a few times and am not even 100% on all of it (aggression tables??, level 5, 10, 15) but I get the gist of most of it, just not as computer savvy as many on here. But what I'm really surprised at is the differences in TCM in apples to apples cars except the year.
Maybe you were right about "the friend" doing a few changes and winding up doing more harm than good. I can't see how Ron's car would an anomaly out of all the RE's produced. When they make cars ECM's/TCM's a tune-is a tune-is a tune, correct? Meening it's one master program for all mass produced, they don't individually tune them correct? And why would FCA spend the time and money on R and D to make a change on the same exact car? Very weird to me. Great info BTW.

Technically it should be one CAL and that's it. I'd have to see another bone stock 2020 RE CAL to compare to Ron's to know if they're the same or something unique with Ron's. I'd bet they're the same though. The 2019 RE had the same 6325 RPM shift point in a few places but I didn't go through all the aggression settings to see if it was ever called or not. The trans calibrations in these cars are very complex where a counter is used to determine a driver type. That type is used to determine which shift table is used and there are 25 of those plus two more for paddles in D or something other than D LOL.

 

[DRAGRCR]

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[coolblue]

Technically it should be one CAL and that's it. I'd have to see another bone stock 2020 RE CAL to compare to Ron's to know if they're the same or something unique with Ron's. I'd bet they're the same though. The 2019 RE had the same 6325 RPM shift point in a few places but I didn't go through all the aggression settings to see if it was ever called or not. The trans calibrations in these cars are very complex where a counter is used to determine a driver type. That type is used to determine which shift table is used and there are 25 of those plus two more for paddles in D or something other than D LOL.

That's incredible. I think at some point the technology and info/options/combo's becomes more of a problem than solver. Why not have one set of parameters for street, sport, and track, that's it? Then the human can adjust to the constant of the machine. But hey.. that would take some thought and skill...and who want's to deal with that. LOL. I'll stop, don't want go off on tangent or steal thread.

 

[coolblue]

" I bet there are quite a few Guys that buy a 2.62 car with the idea they will just swap the 3.09's in there. Etc. Etc.

I'm one. LOL. But now...ehh.