Super Stock tech info.

[TNREDEYE]

Weight is out. Car is loaded and ready to head to Houston tomorrow.

 

[DRAGRCR]

Weight is out. Car is loaded and ready to head to Houston tomorrow.
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Car looks amazing as usual. Can't wait to see this thing run.

 

[TNREDEYE]

Car looks amazing as usual. Can't wait to see this thing run.

Thanks Ron. It'll be fun to get some 1/4 mile laps on this thing. I hope it runs good.

 

[Mike Jesse]

You guys have fun down south and keep us posted. Wished I was going.
Bo, you must have taken all of the usual parts off the car that are easy to remove.
Mine is sitting in the garage with 211 miles on it. Still on the original tank of gas....sad.

 

[GBLWRMR]

Mine is sitting in the garage with 211 miles on it. Still on the original tank of gas....sad.

211 miles on a tank of gas??? What wizardry do you have command of? lol

 

[DRAGRCR]

You guys have fun down south and keep us posted. Wished I was going.
Bo, you must have taken all of the usual parts off the car that are easy to remove.
Mine is sitting in the garage with 211 miles on it. Still on the original tank of gas....sad.

Bo and Jerome will both be running serious effort stock Super Stocks. I think it will be interesting to see if anyone breaks my time. Also, there "IS" some good DA predicted and the Track manager will work with us to chase DA. We have option to change or extend our track times and most times it is brought to a vote in our meetings.

 

[Mike Jesse]

211 miles on a tank of gas??? What wizardry do you have command of? lol

Still about 1/3 tank left.

 

[TNREDEYE]

You guys have fun down south and keep us posted. Wished I was going.
Bo, you must have taken all of the usual parts off the car that are easy to remove.
Mine is sitting in the garage with 211 miles on it. Still on the original tank of gas....sad.

Yes Mike,
I removed the sway bar, the pass and rear seats, trunk stuff and obviously the lightweight wheels and tires.
One of the first things I want to do is weigh it so I have a comparison to the '19.

 

[TNREDEYE]

Well, I learned a lot this past weekend. It feels like I'd have to write a book to cover it all.
I'll start w weight and we can just go from there. As I mentioned earlier, I have the basic easy weight removed from the car. I also have the BS/Hoosier wheels and tires as well as a lightweight battery. With my 220lbs in the car it weighs 4280 ready to race w just enough fuel to keep the low fuel light out.
There were 4 SS' there. All were mostly similarly outfitted. Weights ranged from 4260 to over 4300. The lightest one(Jerome Stone) has a lightweight drivers seat and the heaviest one(Gary, didn't get his last name) has a sunroof. So, overall it was nice to see that the cars aren't particularly heavy.
The accepted "Demon" weight - as I understand it - is 4280 w driver, so the SS' are right there.

 

[vortecd]

Well, I learned a lot this past weekend. It feels like I'd have to write a book to cover it all.
I'll start w weight and we can just go from there. As I mentioned earlier, I have the basic easy weight removed from the car. I also have the BS/Hoosier wheels and tires as well as a lightweight battery. With my 220lbs in the car it weighs 4280 ready to race w just enough fuel to keep the low fuel light out.
There were 4 SS' there. All were mostly similarly outfitted. Weights ranged from 4260 to over 4300. The lightest one(Jerome Stone) has a lightweight drivers seat and the heaviest one(Gary, didn't get his last name) has a sunroof. So, overall it was nice to see that the cars aren't particularly heavy.
The accepted "Demon" weight - as I understand it - is 4280 w driver, so the SS' are right there.

Did you post your times?

 

[vortecd]

I remember them saying Bo but didn't know it was you so I didn't post any of your times in the legion thread

 

[Mike Jesse]

I watched one run, I think it was a 10.23.

 

[TNREDEYE]

Did you post your times?

No vortec I have not.
The car has some sort of short shift issue on the 2-3 that just kills the 1/8 mi et. We can discuss that more later.

On Friday it was warm and not particularly fast. I spent the day just making laps trying to get it to learn that it was going to be a race car for the weekend. It ran between 10.30 and 10.38 for most of the 17 passes I made that day, unless I had it in some odd custom setup.
Sunday was much better. I ran the first part of the day on my MT 305/45-17 ETStreetR's. They're a fair amount heavier than the Hoosier DBR. I had trouble finding the DBR's so I went w the MT. I ran a best of 10.14 with the MT's but I'd say .17-.20 was more representative.
Mid day Tim mentioned that he had an extra set of the Hoosiers. So, I got them and ran to town and had them mounted in place of the MT's. They are 14 lbs/pair lighter than the MT. The first pass sucked(just needed a pass to knock the new off them). The second pass was my best run of the weekend at 10.08. I went a few more lowish teens after that. Then it was time for the Bracket race. I managed to have room to brake on 3 of the 4 rounds which made the et's useless from a pb standpoint. I made 16 runs that day.
Monday was warm and we were ready to be headed home so I made a couple of runs trying some stuff to try to trick the car into holding the 2-3 shift longer. The ideas didn't work so we loaded up and got gone.

More later...

 

[Gteatr6]

Interesting observations today while test fitting my Weld front skinnies... The stock 18x11 wheel with OEM NT05R tire weighs 60 lbs! I was guessing approx 55 lbs based on Demon wheels weighing ~22 lbs and Nitto NT05R weighing 33 per their specs. (btw yes I know my wheels are dirty)

Also, I could not find a part number on the Super Stock wheel anywhere... On the Demon wheel, the part number is stamped right near the hub surface.

And finally, the 2021 Super Stock gets the same Demon calipers, while the 2020 Super Stock has a basic Scat Pack caliper as I understand. Also, 2021 has non-slotted rotors, but 2020's were slotted.

I would be curious if anyone knows a paint code that would match up to the granite gray wheels. I have some Demon wheels on the way and I want them powdercoated or painted to match. The Demon wheels will be for a "factory appearing" drag pack, while the Welds will be for all out personal best goals. View attachment 53418 View attachment 53419 View attachment 53420 View attachment 53421 View attachment 53422 View attachment 53424 View attachment 53425

Interesting observations today while test fitting my Weld front skinnies... The stock 18x11 wheel with OEM NT05R tire weighs 60 lbs! I was guessing approx 55 lbs based on Demon wheels weighing ~22 lbs and Nitto NT05R weighing 33 per their specs. (btw yes I know my wheels are dirty)

Also, I could not find a part number on the Super Stock wheel anywhere... On the Demon wheel, the part number is stamped right near the hub surface.

And finally, the 2021 Super Stock gets the same Demon calipers, while the 2020 Super Stock has a basic Scat Pack caliper as I understand. Also, 2021 has non-slotted rotors, but 2020's were slotted.

I would be curious if anyone knows a paint code that would match up to the granite gray wheels. I have some Demon wheels on the way and I want them powdercoated or painted to match. The Demon wheels will be for a "factory appearing" drag pack, while the Welds will be for all out personal best goals. View attachment 53418 View attachment 53419 View attachment 53420 View attachment 53421 View attachment 53422 View attachment 53424 View attachment 53425

The Toyota magnetic grey is a spot on perfect match for the wide body devils rim. I’ve fixed slight curb rash and you could not find my repair without me pointing it out. I would almost bet it’s going to be the same for the ss rims. I don’t plan on scuffing mine up to find out, but I might buy some demon rims and paint them as I can’t find any extra ss rims for sale yet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00407RRTG?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[TNREDEYE]

Ok, IMO it's time to have a discussion about the various shifting issues these cars have in general. Those of us that actually race them have to deal with whatever shift issue their particular car has. The issues seem to vary from car to car. I lifted this from a post Ron put in his SS thread sort of as a jump off point for discussion:

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So, at the Legion of Demons event the next weekend I went a little faster. But no new article. The car had hiccups. It was frustrating because FCA said this car would work better for what I was doing and I cannot keep buying car after car. Right? I had the HpTuners and they did not have support for the TCM Adaptives but they DID have it for the PCM. I thought maybe they were grouped together so I reset them. Wow, the car made a few good passes. But then the Hiccups returned. I reset the adaptives and a few good passes. But it still would not follow a perfect pattern but the pattern was there. I was told by Curt that when I reset the adaptives the engine made LESS power and that is what fixed the Hiccups temporarily. When the fuel trims came in the power would return along with the Hiccups. I actually had a Hiccup on the 1-2 (rev limit) and the 2-3 (transmission protection). So, with the DA and the weight reduction the car was getting outside the factory calibration and that was causing a MALFUNCTION. So, at the end of that day, Curt was helping me REPAIR the Problem/Malfunction. So, some want to say I was doing a Trans Tune. But it was not in the sense or designed to make the car any faster per se. I just wanted to do what was necessary to eliminate the hiccups and let the car run as fast as it could, stock. If the fuel trims were leveled out and the car did not hiccup, I felt the car could have had a high 9.80 in it during some of the best DA. Also note: the PCM was never unlocked. So, I had to be extra careful to not brick the PCM. One person that trashed some of my threads, and was really mean to me, did point out that you can tune the TCM and not have the PCM unlocked. The TCM’s are not locked. So that was one GOOD thing that came out of him coming in there like a wrecking ball. Unfortunately, that will never happen again.

Our first small change was to increase the shift pressure. The DA was dropping because the sun was just going down and they had just done a full prep of the track. So, the track was on point and the DA was getting better. The car ran 9.94 and then a 9.90. Good DA and NO Hiccups. In fact the shifts would be at a LOWER RPM because of the harder shift it will complete faster/sooner and pull the motor down away from the rev limiter. But it was spinning the slicks on the shifts and that is not really the fastest way down the race track. Every Tuner knows that and a performance tune would not be set up that way and would likely be combined with an unlocked PCM so you could raise rev limits and shift at a higher RPM. So, if you want to say I tuned my Trans and that is how I got the 9.90, that is fine. Did the change we made make the car faster. Hell yes it did, because it finally allowed the car to work right. But was it intended as a performance tune or modification. No.
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First off, there are discrepancies in what various people(read customers) are being told about tuning the transmission without having to unlock the PCM. I suspect this is causing the confusion that one would expect from this.

Second, the shift issues seem to run the gamut from the dreaded 1-2 hiccup, and insanely hard 1-2 shift w no hiccup, a 2-3 hiccup, an early 2-3 shift causing significant loss of momentum early in the run, etc. ...

I personally have ZERO interest in "tuning" my SS. I do have a shift issue that's causing a decent loss of et. So, what is there to do?
I've called my local dealer and their suggestions are:
a - do a reflash to the trans and let it relearn from scratch and hope it helps. This is quick, simple and can be done while I wait.
b - leave it there for a couple of days and let them do a complete diagnostic on the car to see if they can find a sensor or such that's reading out of whack.
Honestly, neither is a very appealing option to me.

Personally, I kind of like the idea of tuning the trans to make it act like it should have from the factory. IMO, it's hard to call a car that had the trans tuned "stock" and I don't care for that. Plus, there's the cris-crossed information about whether a trans can be tuned with first unlocking the PCM.

This whole deal seems like musical trans issues to me but it would seem that it's what we're stuck with...

 

[DRAGRCR]

I want to clarify some things. In higher DA it was increased LOAD that cause the transmission protection to use torque management on the 2-3 shift. In other words the RPM never reached the rev limit and the shift was not completing fast enough so the Calibration would call for a torque reduction the help complete the shift. In higher DA the car nailed the 1-2 really hard and had no issues. When I got the car in -1000 foot DA the 1-2 would hiccup on Rev Limit and the 2-3 would THEN hiccup on rev limit. So the 2-3 would transition to a different issue at lower DA. I just reviewed logs to verify this.

I just raced my Friends Demon that ran 9.16 and the shifts are amazing. Seriously amazing. Like you pretty much don't notice them because they are a non issue. Not sure why Dodge cannot accomplish this. That particluar Tuner is different than the one I was working with on the Super Stock, and would be my go to if I was ever tuning my own stuff again.

 

[TNREDEYE]

"Not sure why Dodge cannot accomplish this."

I think there are many of us that don't understand that. I get REALLY confused at how much different the various shifting issues are among these cars.

 

[DRAGRCR]

OK, to Tune the Transmission with HPTuners you have to have a security gateway bypass installed, have the Tool, Download the software (use the beta version). Then you will need to copy (READ) your original TCM tune. You might as well copy (READ) the PCM as well. You cannot hurt anything by Copying. Then you send that to your tuner to be modified. He sends you back a file that you can WRITE to the TCM. But the Tool will not let you write the TCM without first registering and assigning 2 credits to the PCM. ANd 4 credits need to be assigned to the TCM. SUPER IMPORTANT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the Drag Down menu for the PCM you are going to tell the software "DO NOT WRITE". Or you will brick the PCM. You have to be in there to get the PCM registered but you are NOT going to write the PCM. Sometimes the Tuners will send files that are grouped together PCM and TCM, even though they just made a change to the TCM and not the PCM. I would encourage to just work with a TCM file to make it idiot proof. Saving Original Tunes you can do both or individual by using the drop down menues when reading.

 

[TNREDEYE]

OK, to Tune the Transmission with HPTuners you have to have a security gateway bypass installed, have the Tool, Download the software (use the beta version). Then you will need to copy (READ) your original TCM tune. You might as well copy (READ) the PCM as well. You cannot hurt anything by Copying. Then you send that to your tuner to be modified. He sends you back a file that you can WRITE to the TCM. But the Tool will not let you write the TCM without first registering and assigning 2 credits to the PCM. ANd 4 credits need to be assigned to the TCM. SUPER IMPORTANT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the Drag Down menu for the PCM you are going to tell the software "DO NOT WRITE". Or you will brick the PCM. You have to be in there to get the PCM registered but you are NOT going to write the PCM. Sometimes the Tuners will send files that are grouped together PCM and TCM, even though they just made a change to the TCM and not the PCM. I would encourage to just work with a TCM file to make it idiot proof. Saving Original Tunes you can do both or individual by using the drop down menues when reading.

Lots of words there. It may take a read or two for it to soak in.
When I had the BAM 1-2 shift on my '21 RE I called ********** to get what was needed to retune the TCM and was told point blank by some kid that worked there that it was a must to unlock the PCM in order to deal with the TCM. I questioned that rather thoroughly and he was adamant that the TCM couldn't be retuned without first unlocking the PCM. I even mentioned that I knew customers of theirs that said they'd done it and I was simply told I was wrong. I got off the phone..
So, to say it would be REALLY easy for a tuning customer to get confused about this a bit of an understatement.

In hindsight it's probably best to leave the name out, thus the **********.

 

[Mike Jesse]

Due to the local tracks being closed I have not experienced the dreaded hick ups or other BS that these transmissions seem to have.
So far on the few street pulls I've done it pulls cleanly without any nonsense.

Take it for what it's worth, I tuned the Redeye trans when I swapped the upper pulley.
Curt Dusterhoff did the remote tunes on it. When finished, it pulled cleanly to redline without issues. As it should.
I also made it a point to tune the car with the drag wheel/tire set up installed.
Prior to the trans tune, it would short shift 1-2 every time at the track. Like at 5600 RPM.

Data logs showed that it was in fact shifting at 6250 RPM, the tach said otherwise.

I plan to leave the engine tune alone and only have the trans. tuned if it's needed.